So we do have some examples here, without using these impact bonds.
I want to go to a question on two things. Obviously government pays. If these work and they achieve a higher success rate, then the government pays more for these projects. My question is about the value that's being added there. Why couldn't government have run the same program and achieved those same good outcomes? Why is the government paying somebody else an interest rate up to 20% to achieve something it could have done itself? What's the value added there?