Evidence of meeting #52 for Public Safety and National Security in the 41st Parliament, 2nd session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was video.
A video is available from Parliament.
Commissioner, Royal Canadian Mounted Police
No, based on the evidence that we've accumulated now, I would have no difficulty charging him with the terrorism offence that I spoke of.
NDP
Randall Garrison NDP Esquimalt—Juan de Fuca, BC
Thank you.
You say that you are still investigating individuals who may have contributed to the incident, or the acts, and I appreciate and understand that.
Have you found any legislative or statutory impediment to investigating this incident?
Commissioner, Royal Canadian Mounted Police
You know, the investigation and presentation of evidence in a criminal context is a very complex and challenging environment, and....
No, I haven't. I haven't had any sort of statutory impediment.
What I want to say, and what I'm dancing around, is this. Let me use this recent peace bond example from Montreal. It was widely reported that a young man was brought before the courts to be placed on a peace bond. A peace bond is the lowest of state interventions in a person's freedom, and it has to be done on a demonstrable, articulable basis: the fear that he is going to do something bad.
To make my point quickly, we presented our case. We had the Attorney General's consent to do that. We brought him in to court and it was dismissed, put off for a month. In this environment, with the framework that I am managing, thinking that we are going to mitigate the threat that we say this individual poses by having him subject to a peace bond, we don't have that peace bond. There's a month before we decide whether there is a peace bond. What are we doing for a month on this guy? If he does something that we're afraid of, who's going to hold that can? That's going to be me.
My point is that while the legislation, and the proposed legislation, is adequate, and the proposed legislation would be helpful, I think we need to rethink in this country how we manage the courts, frankly.
NDP
Randall Garrison NDP Esquimalt—Juan de Fuca, BC
In this case would it be a question of court resources?
Commissioner, Royal Canadian Mounted Police
I don't know. I don't know what it is.
We brought him before the courts. The prosecution brought him before the courts. It was put off for a month. That doesn't seem reasonable. It doesn't seem consistent with what we're trying to advance.
NDP
Randall Garrison NDP Esquimalt—Juan de Fuca, BC
But as far as you know, it had nothing to do with the ability to get a peace bond. It's to do with court functions, then.
NDP
Randall Garrison NDP Esquimalt—Juan de Fuca, BC
Okay.
I have just a minute left, so perhaps I can ask you this. You raised the issue of Mr. Zehaf-Bibeau's application for a passport. Did you run into any problems, or was there any problem, with information sharing around that from Passports to the RCMP?
NDP
Randall Garrison NDP Esquimalt—Juan de Fuca, BC
I think you said in some media reports—I'm sure you may have to correct those, as we often do—that Mr. Zehaf-Bibeau appeared to be coming to Ottawa on the passport question. There were some who then characterized that as saying the incident that took place was his plan B. Can you comment further on that?
Commissioner, Royal Canadian Mounted Police
I don't think we have enough evidence to conclude. I still think it's reasonable to suspect that when he was encountering difficulty getting a passport issued in Vancouver that.... I'm not inside his head. There is some evidence to suggest that he wanted to come to Ottawa to get a passport and he was going to take this up with the various authorities that he wanted to take it up with.
Conservative
Conservative
Diane Ablonczy Conservative Calgary Nose Hill, AB
Certainly, today's broadcasting of this video brought back some very emotional memories, not just for those of us here but for the entire nation, which is outraged at what happened in the very seat of our Parliament and our government. I'm proud to say that it strengthened the resolve of Canadians to push back and to fight this kind of terrorism.
You mentioned that the terrorist was in contact with individuals both in Ottawa and in British Columbia, and that you've been able to identify some of the individuals. The terrorist himself says in the video that “we are retaliating” and suggests that somehow Canada is at fault here. I guess that would include countries like France, Denmark, and Australia, which have also experienced these kinds of terrorist attacks in very recent times. My question is, how broad a network was involved in this attack in Parliament?
Commissioner, Royal Canadian Mounted Police
Well, that's difficult to say. I think that on the one hand I might say that the entire jihadist movement is an inspiring sort of state of being that is attracting and developing some of these individuals. I also think and I'm persuaded that Zehaf-Bibeau didn't come to this act alone. I think the broader network, if you can call it that, is the movement, and then there are individuals within that movement who are more tightly connected and would influence individuals like Zehaf-Bibeau and others.
Conservative
Diane Ablonczy Conservative Calgary Nose Hill, AB
Have you been able to identify some of the proximate actors in this act of terror and tie them definitively to the act?
Commissioner, Royal Canadian Mounted Police
Well, no, because we haven't brought any charges yet. The objective of this investigation is to do just what you've asked.
Conservative
Diane Ablonczy Conservative Calgary Nose Hill, AB
I guess we're anxious to get to the bottom of exactly who was involved and how broad the planning was.
Commissioner, Royal Canadian Mounted Police
Well, hopefully we can deliver on that.
Conservative
Conservative
Bob Zimmer Conservative Prince George—Peace River, BC
Thank you again for coming, Commissioner.
I'll follow up on one thing you said. Would it be accurate to say that legislation is only good if it's upheld by the courts?
Conservative
Bob Zimmer Conservative Prince George—Peace River, BC
I have another question. I guess I would follow along with my colleagues in saying it's interesting to be in the same room where, just feet away, the person came through with guns blazing. It's interesting to be in the same room and dealing with it on the other side. It's appropriate, too, in a lot of ways, that we're back.
I wanted to make a statement or ask a question on behalf of Canadians. Is terrorism a present danger in Canadian society? What would you say? What term would you use for it?
Again, for us, we want to keep our citizens safe, as you've just said. We want to do the same thing, but we want to live in a free society. I have kids and I want them to live a happy life, like most people and parents do. What would you say to Canadians today?
Commissioner, Royal Canadian Mounted Police
What I do say to people is that it's a growing threat. People don't need to be afraid. People need to be engaged. People need to be aware. I think that's how I'd frame it.
Make no mistake, it's a growing presence, and it's not only in Canada but in most of our partner countries, at a level that is challenging us all.
