I think Canadians have a profound misconception of what disruption constitutes. CSIS being able to talk to parents to tell them that their child is up to no good is a disruption power. It's something that CSIS is currently not allowed to do. CSIS trying to find a way to cancel the plane ticket of someone who is looking to leave the country is a disruption power. This is not a fundamental undermining of collective freedoms and whatnot.
On the disruption powers that are so controversial, essentially the ones that require judicial authorization, I have two remarks to make.
One is that CSIS will, I think, be very apprehensive and reluctant to use them to begin with, because CSIS knows full well that these are controversial, and the last thing CSIS wants is lots of national attention, some national inquiry about the way it used these particular powers. I think it will use them as a measure of absolute last resort when there is no other way to avert an incident.
I might also point out that I think Canadians have a rather imperfect understanding at times of the mechanisms already in place. When CSIS goes out to get a warrant, first it has to get approval within CSIS. Then it goes to an interdepartmental committee, which vets the particular warrant. Then it goes to the minister, who has to sign off on the warrant, which is important, of course, because of ministerial responsibility and responsible government. Then it goes to the judge.
Before the judge signs off, in many cases the judge will send it back saying, “I want certain changes made”, “I want more evidence”, or whatnot. The judge can impose certain conditions on how the operation is carried out. In many cases the judge will even ask CSIS to report back on how things were done, to assure the judge that everything was done in accordance not just with the law but with exactly what was authorized by that particular judge. We now have some very competent judges in this country with regard to the national security framework that is in place.
I would also say with regard to our European allies that one of the challenges here is that we have been very privileged in not having had to live with the challenges we are discussing and are facing, and that they have had to do so for decades, if we look at Germany, France, Spain, or the United Kingdom. From a policy analysis perspective, I think there is some policy learning that can be done from the experiences our allies have had with some of the powers we are adopting here, which they already have in legislation and with which they have ample experience.