Evidence of meeting #58 for Public Safety and National Security in the 41st Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was terrorist.
A video is available from Parliament.
Conservative
Ted Falk Conservative Provencher, MB
Thank you to all of our witnesses for coming here this evening and complementing our parliamentary schedule, and especially to you, Mr. Neumann, as you have adjusted your clock significantly to be with us this evening.
Conservative
Ted Falk Conservative Provencher, MB
Mr. Gora and Ms. Shahida, I'd like to begin with you.
We've listened to a lot of testimony in the last few days. All of the people testifying seem to agree that there is a terrorist threat. They don't all agree on whether this is the right path to travel down in addressing the threat.
You talked a little bit about radicalization among individuals, especially among Islamic people who are being radicalized. I wonder if you can comment briefly on where you see this legislation addressing those concerns. Does it do an adequate enough job?
Director General, Canadian Thinkers' Forum
Thank you, sir.
We clearly see this legislation as very vital to addressing certainly those issues, because in doing our research work, we really discovered alarming factors in our Muslim diaspora. As I said, being born and raised in a Muslim community, we are able to see that high level of fracture around us.
This bill certainly would give power to law enforcement agencies to investigate those, particularly young and radicalized imams, who are involved in Internet jihad campaigns. Without this legislation, we don't see much power for law enforcement agencies to take care of that Internet jihad campaign, so that is a strong recommendation for this bill.
Conservative
Ted Falk Conservative Provencher, MB
Okay, and do you believe that Bill C-51 has the tools to address that issue?
Director General, Canadian Thinkers' Forum
I actually believe that this bill does have some tools, but it should have more actually in terms of curbing jihad propaganda on the Internet by Canadian fellows.
Conservative
Arooj Shahida Director, Canadian Thinkers' Forum
Although I am just an observer here, I second him.
I do see that this bill may create awareness that if there is something developing, if it's not there yet and if they're not that careful in the extremism they are following in their behaviours....
At least it is a warning for other people, like youth, not to follow this path of extremism. At least it is prevention, a kind of warning.
Conservative
Ted Falk Conservative Provencher, MB
If we can nip it in the bud, there's lots of merit in that.
Mr. Neumann, I'd like to pick up—
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Daryl Kramp
Mr. Falk, I'm going to interrupt you for one second. We've just had a little breakdown in communications and Mr. Neumann has now been lost across the ocean for a bit. We are trying to re-establish the connection. As soon as the chair has been notified that connection is back in place, we will certainly bring it to your attention.
In the meantime, the question you were so eager to ask, perhaps you could direct it elsewhere.
Thank you.
Conservative
Ted Falk Conservative Provencher, MB
Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
I'll go back to you, Mr. Gora.
You talked about social media a little and the influence that is having on radicalizing individuals. How does this bill address the whole aspect of social media?
Director General, Canadian Thinkers' Forum
I'm not an Internet lawyer or expert on how to address Internet radicalization. Through our research we see so many Facebook groups and pages in Arabic, Persian, and Urdu, and I'm sure Canadian law enforcement agencies probably don't have full access to the content on those Facebook pages and groups. They are being operated within Canada and the friendly Government of Canada needs assistance from communities who know Arabic, Persian, and Urdu. Without that assistance, the government is probably not able to act, even if this bill gets passed, so this is very complicated.
Yes, through social media law enforcement entities surely can track down those individuals, but they need to get into that content, which is not in English.
Conservative
Ted Falk Conservative Provencher, MB
Okay.
Another aspect of your testimony was that a lot of the people being radicalized are youth as opposed to more mature people. How important do you think it is that law enforcement agencies have the ability to talk to parents in preventing and curbing radicalism?
Director General, Canadian Thinkers' Forum
Yes, it is important to talk to parents. Also, there's a need to create an awareness, as I said, in those languages particularly, because most parents who are Pakistani, Afghani, Arab, and among the Middle Eastern diaspora don't even interact with the community at large. Law enforcement agencies need to talk to parents and those parents need to be aware of what's going on in their basement with the young fellows, and not just the youth. Our research group has discovered over 200 individuals between the ages of 40 and 50 talking about radical stuff on social media, and they are based in Canada.
Conservative
Ted Falk Conservative Provencher, MB
Part of this bill gives powers to CSIS to take down websites. I'm taking from your testimony that this is an important tool you would support.
Conservative
Director General, Canadian Thinkers' Forum
Yes. There are so many clips by Canadian radical elements on those websites or those Facebook pages or those social media pages, especially YouTube. They serve well in spreading hatred toward society in jihad ideology. Those must be taken down. That's the only way to block that hatred and that jihad ideology.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Daryl Kramp
Thank you very much, Mr. Falk.
Mr. Gora, thank you.
Mr. Easter, you have the floor, sir.
Conservative
Liberal
Wayne Easter Liberal Malpeque, PE
I hope nobody with authority jammed the signal so we couldn't hear his testimony.