Public Safety Committee on Dec. 3rd, 2013

[Commr Bob Paulson]

We've been at JDS Uniphase for about two or three years. So you're looking for the cost of moving out there?

[Mauril Bélanger, Liberal, Ottawa—Vanier, ON]

And whatever had to be done to the facilities as well....

Is it possible to have that information?

[Commr Bob Paulson]

I suppose so, but I think it's a fairly public record there, and it's old news.

I'm going to have to go and dig that up somewhere.

[Mauril Bélanger, Liberal, Ottawa—Vanier, ON]

Thank you.

[Commr Bob Paulson]

But I don't know that I'm undertaking to do that. Am I undertaking to do that?

[Mauril Bélanger, Liberal, Ottawa—Vanier, ON]

I'm asking you.

[Commr Bob Paulson]

I'll do what I can.

[Mauril Bélanger, Liberal, Ottawa—Vanier, ON]

Thank you.

The supplementary estimates indicate a transfer of $500,000 from the Correctional Service of Canada to certain entities to clean up federally contaminated sites. What is the reason for that transfer? Is it because there are contaminated sites near correctional facilities?

[Anne Kelly]

We had received funds, but there was a surplus. We had to transfer it to Fisheries and Oceans Canada and to Aboriginal Affairs and Northern Development Canada.

[Mauril Bélanger, Liberal, Ottawa—Vanier, ON]

Why?

[Anne Kelly]

I will have to provide an answer to that later.

[Mauril Bélanger, Liberal, Ottawa—Vanier, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

[The Chair, Conservative, Daryl Kramp]

You still have a minute, if you'd like, Mr. Bélanger.

[Mauril Bélanger, Liberal, Ottawa—Vanier, ON]

No.

[The Chair, Conservative, Daryl Kramp]

Okay, then, we will go to Madame Doré Lefebvre, s'il vous plait, for five minutes.

[Rosane Doré Lefebvre, NDP, Alfred-Pellan, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I would like to thank the witnesses for being here today. It is extremely important to hear your comments on the supplementary estimates.

My first few questions are for Mr. Guimont or anyone who can answer them.

In our last few meetings, I probably spoke to you about the fight against street gangs and the Police Officers Recruitment Fund, which the government decided not to renew. This program funded joint regional squads, particularly in Quebec, to deal with street gangs. It worked very well but, unfortunately, their funding was cut. In Quebec, police officers decided to continue to use these joint squads because there were very effective in dismantling street gang networks.

Is there a solution to this lack of funding so that we can fight the increasing presence of street gangs? Do you intend to fund the implementation of a prevention program to deal with street gangs?

[François Guimont, Deputy Minister, Department of Public Safety and Emergency Preparedness]

As I mentioned previously, the program worked very well. The $400 million was allocated to the provinces and territories based on their population. They were able to hire police officers. It was a very good program.

We think the program achieved its objectives: police officers were hired, they were incorporated into the police forces and, now, they are working. That is why we ended the program. It wasn't an ongoing program, but a temporary one.

Now I'll get to your more specific question.

Some elements of the department's programming deal with crime prevention. We have the National Crime Prevention Centre. It's at headquarters, but it also has ramifications in the regions. We allocate funds, a program of about $40 million, for various initiatives in the regions that are designated as being a priority, so that the initiatives have a positive impact on the provinces and territories where those programs are implemented. The programs are also variable. Obviously, the programs can change depending on the priorities determined by the federal and provincial governments.

We also have the Kanishka project, and $10 million has been invested in it. The project's objective is to understand the causes of criminal behaviour. Some of those elements are related to components of criminal behaviour in youth. So there is a grant program that supports activities, educational or otherwise, across the country.

Finally, we have a cross-cultural round table made up of Canadians of various ethnic backgrounds. It is very important and has been around since 2006. I'd like to stress this activity. I am often at that table—

[Rosane Doré Lefebvre, NDP, Alfred-Pellan, QC]

I'm sorry, Mr. Guimont, but I don't have a lot of time to cover all that. I don't want to be disrespectful, but we already know that these program exist. Thank you for answering the question.

My last question is for Mrs. Kelly and has to do with rehabilitation programs.

Traditionally, the Correctional Service of Canada has allocated 5% of its budget to inmate rehabilitation programs, which are extremely important. These programs are recognized by the staff, management and various experts in the field.

Funding for these programs is not currently 5% of the Correctional Service of Canada's budget, but is about 2.5% or 2.7%, which is one of the lowest rates.

What are your thoughts on that? Do you think funding should be brought back up to 5% of the budget? Are we moving toward an increase in the percentage of the budget allocated for inmate rehabilitation programs?

[Anne Kelly]

I don't have the percentages here with me, but I can say that investments have been made in rehabilitation programs. We believe in this kind of program. Our programs are recognized around the world. When we assess inmates at intake, we direct them toward programs.

We still depend a lot on our programs. Investments have been made more recently in the programs. We continue to evaluate them.

[The Chair, Conservative, Daryl Kramp]

Thank you.

Mr. Weston, please.

[Rodney Weston, Conservative, Saint John, NB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Mr. Paulson, my question is for you. I'm from Saint John, New Brunswick. Last weekend there was a highly publicized issue with a member of the RCMP. It generated a lot of discussion and a lot of media attention in the provincial newspaper on Friday and Saturday of last week. I wonder if you would care to elaborate a little more on that issue, as I'm sure people would like to hear a little more detail surrounding that issue of the member smoking medicinal marijuana and the RCMP's actions with respect to that individual member.

[Commr Bob Paulson]

Thank you.

It is a particularly difficult and delicate situation with respect to the member you're referring to, who has been under the care of doctors and has been trying to get better, having encountered some occupational stress injuries during the course of his duties.

It was very awkward and disappointing to see how, despite extensive efforts by our commanders in New Brunswick and other staff, we were unable to dissuade him from going to the media. I was pretty disappointed, frankly, to see that story. I'm still trying to figure out what the story was, and I was sad for the member. I think his colleagues were sad for him. It was all very embarrassing, I think, not just for the force, but for Canadians.

I suppose it did raise some issues with respect to managing members or employees of organizations, particularly those engaged in public safety, who are prescribed medical marijuana, and the propriety of that in the first instance, and then the issue as to whether or not there needs to be some accommodation of providing spaces at work, and so on.

Let me just say that while he was taking his medication, this officer was never in duties that would have been remotely understood to have been police-related. In fact, he is fully off duty right now. We're working with him to try to help him get better. We had to take some decisive actions to make sure this situation wasn't exploited by people who wanted to exploit this poor member.

I feel very embarrassed for the member, and hopefully we can help him along.

[Rodney Weston, Conservative, Saint John, NB]

I appreciate your comments, Commissioner, especially since you used the word “confused”, because there is a lot of confusion publicly about the whole situation. I spoke to people from around my area who look at it from different sides. Some were supportive of the actions of the RCMP, and some were confused by the actions of the RCMP, just from the perspective that it was medicinal marijuana that was part of the story.

Do you have a policy with respect to members' usage of medicinal marijuana?

[Commr Bob Paulson]

We have a policy with respect to the usage of mind-altering medications and so on, which is to say that members won't be put into duty-related activities. We also have the responsibility to engage our health services people with the member's doctor to make sure they understand the full range of strategies that can be brought to bear on this member's condition.

We also do have policies with respect to talking to the media while representing themselves as members of the force on force-related matters, and we have policies with respect to wearing of uniforms.

So all those things are being applied now. The member in question was spoken to ahead of this incident, was asked not to do what he had done, but...he's not in a good place. Consequently, it got away on a bunch of people, and it gained an enormous public aspect that really didn't do the member any service.

[Rodney Weston, Conservative, Saint John, NB]

You referenced the member as not being in a good place. I'm assuming you have support services available.