Public Safety Committee on May 8th, 2018

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

We have to leave it there.

[Ralph Goodale, Liberal, Regina—Wascana, SK]

We held a very important conference on that topic about a month ago.

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

Thank you, Minister.

Mr. Fragiskatos, you have five minutes.

[Peter Fragiskatos, Liberal, London North Centre, ON]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, Minister and officials, for being here today.

One of the issues that unfortunately arises—and we've heard reference already to misleading, targeted ads on social media and the like—is the perception that this is a gun registry.

Minister, you've been clear already, but I wonder if you could go over again—it would be appreciated—the sort of information that would be kept by gun vendors. What information would be kept, and how would it assist police in investigations?

[Ralph Goodale, Liberal, Regina—Wascana, SK]

I'm going to ask if Paula or Randall can detail the specific information that commercial retailers would be required to retain.

[Paula Clarke]

There would be no specifically identifying information that would be retained by the firearms businesses. The information relates to the date of the purchase, the firearms licence number, and the make, model, and other descriptive information of the firearm that was sold.

[Peter Fragiskatos, Liberal, London North Centre, ON]

Thank you very much.

Minister, you talked about how this would assist in investigations, straw purchases, and the like. I wonder if you could go into that one more time.

[Ralph Goodale, Liberal, Regina—Wascana, SK]

It's the beginning point for a police investigation, and maybe Superintendent Brown can describe more precisely in terms of police procedure how this is of assistance. The point is that if the police have the necessary reasonable grounds and they get the judicial authorization as necessary, they would have access to the records to help them in the process of tracing either weapons used in crime or other nefarious activities, like the straw purchases.

Mr. Brown, could you add some more detail?

[Supt Paul Brown]

Yes, thank you.

With regard to a firearm that's deemed to be a crime gun, what we would do as law enforcement would be to conduct a trace on said firearm. That would mean any identifying characteristics—make, model, manufacturer, serial number—would be put through the tracing system to hopefully get back to the closest owner of the firearm, or, if not, as far back as we can go so we can start to trace forward.

That could be from the United States, as a manufacturer, and imported into the country. Say if it's imported from the United States, it allows us to determine where it was imported to. We go to the distributor to determine if they have the firearm, through their records. Then, if it is identified as being there, it allows us, through the information obtained within the business ledger, to determine who the actual purchaser would have been.

[Peter Fragiskatos, Liberal, London North Centre, ON]

At any point in this process, will purchasers be required to disclose where they keep guns in the home and things of this nature? No. Thank you for putting all of this on the record. To me, it confirms what is already obvious, but unfortunately, because of misleading information that's being put out there, especially by the official opposition, we see again that this is clearly not a gun registry.

One of the other issues that arises from misleading information is the perception among some in the country that the federal government is going after law-abiding firearms owners. To me, this is about responsible gun ownership. We respect hunters and hunting. I wonder if you could speak to the fact that this is not targeting hunters or people who follow the law. This is about public safety.

[Ralph Goodale, Liberal, Regina—Wascana, SK]

From the very beginning, we have tried to make that point abundantly clear. Our objective here is to gain practical improvements in public safety without imposing any kind of intrusive or unreasonable burden on law-abiding Canadian citizens or law-abiding Canadian businesses. I know that this is an intense and emotional topic, and people have strong feelings on various sides of the argument, but if you take a practical run through the legislation, there is nothing here that is an unreasonable burden on people who are going to follow the law, and the vast majority of Canadians do.

[Peter Fragiskatos, Liberal, London North Centre, ON]

Thank you, Minister.

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

Thank you, Mr. Fragiskatos.

Mr. Calkins, you have five minutes.

[Blaine Calkins, Conservative, Red Deer—Lacombe, AB]

Thank you, Chair.

Minister, what are your department's expected results? What has your department told you in so far as if Bill C-71 were to pass in its current form, there would be a decrease in illegal guns crossing the border from the United States?

[Ralph Goodale, Liberal, Regina—Wascana, SK]

As Mr. Brown has just explained, the legislation will help in the tracing of firearms.

[Blaine Calkins, Conservative, Red Deer—Lacombe, AB]

In order to trace something, it must be registered. You must have a registry in order to trace something. Is that correct?

[Ralph Goodale, Liberal, Regina—Wascana, SK]

No.

[Blaine Calkins, Conservative, Red Deer—Lacombe, AB]

Otherwise, what would you trace against?

[Ralph Goodale, Liberal, Regina—Wascana, SK]

You would trace against the commercial records maintained by the retailers.

[Blaine Calkins, Conservative, Red Deer—Lacombe, AB]

In a registry?

[Ralph Goodale, Liberal, Regina—Wascana, SK]

No.

[Blaine Calkins, Conservative, Red Deer—Lacombe, AB]

Yes, it is. Whether it's a transactional registry or not, it's a registry.

[Ralph Goodale, Liberal, Regina—Wascana, SK]

It's their inventory, which is not maintained by government. They are their own private property owners.

[Blaine Calkins, Conservative, Red Deer—Lacombe, AB]

Would you agree that you can't trace against records if the records don't exist?

[Ralph Goodale, Liberal, Regina—Wascana, SK]

It's the inventory that is kept by commercial enterprises that police can have access to, but not government.