Public Safety Committee on May 8th, 2018

[Sean Fraser, Liberal, Central Nova, NS]

With respect to background checks and with the expanded ability to consider an individual's criminal history, presumably if that individual had committed crimes or had been part of criminal organizations, that would prevent the individual from acquiring a licence to own a firearm. Is that accurate?

[Randall Koops]

That's right.

Bill C-71 doesn't change those criteria, but the criteria that are there, that could be related to gang activity, would include the commission of an offence involving violence; the commission of trafficking offences under the Controlled Drugs and Substances Act, namely illegal drugs; or trafficking in firearms, which are activities that gangs are often involved in.

[Sean Fraser, Liberal, Central Nova, NS]

When it came to the process of verification, the minister mentioned in his opening remarks the example of individuals who are long-standing customers of a particular gun shop who may have had their licence suspended or revoked due to criminal behaviour, or potential participation in a criminal gang. Presumably that would be flagged upon an attempt to verify the point of sale and prevent that member of a criminal organization from acquiring a firearm in that instance. Is that fair as well?

[Randall Koops]

That's correct.

[Sean Fraser, Liberal, Central Nova, NS]

As an overarching theme, despite the fact that the exact words “gang” or “criminal” might not be there, in your opinion, would the investigation powers and the ability to prevent someone from acquiring a licence or firearm prevent a member of a criminal organization or someone who has committed crimes from committing gun violence?

[Randall Koops]

From obtaining a firearms licence, yes.

[Sean Fraser, Liberal, Central Nova, NS]

Going back to the issue of transportation, I met with members of the Nova Scotia Federation of Anglers and Hunters, and I know their Ontario counterparts are going to be testifying here today. This is one issue where they did express some reservations to me as a local representative, and I want to do my best to ensure their voices are heard and their questions are answered.

Specifically, in addition to the transport from the point of sale to their home, and the transport from their home to a gun range, there were two other areas where they said their common place posed no safety risk, and that was to a gun show and to a gunsmith. In fact, when it came to the gunsmith example, at least one constituent raised with me the fact that this was potentially going to be a disincentive for people to properly maintain their firearm.

One of the things I want to better understand is the safety outcome that is contemplated by the requirement of an ATT with the exception of to and from a home and then a gun range. Would extending that exemption to the gun show and a gunsmith jeopardize the safety outcome?

[Randall Koops]

The safety outcome provides police with one more tool, or one more piece of information, in their ability to challenge, if you will, someone as to where they are travelling in the community with a restricted or prohibited firearm.

Rob may have more detail on that.

[Rob O'Reilly, Director, Firearms Regulatory Services, Canadian Firearms Program, Royal Canadian Mounted Police]

The only thing I would add in relation to your question is that prior to 2015, when the regime existed, where there were no authorizations to transport automatically added as a condition on the firearms licence, everyone was required to apply for an authorization to transport for many purposes, but including the two purposes that you've given, namely, transportation to a gunsmith and transportation to a gun show.

In 2015, we issued approximately 143,000 authorizations to transport, and 96.5% of those were for the two purposes that remain under Bill C-71. We had approximately 250 ATTs issued for going to a gun show and 131 issued for going to a gunsmith, so it did not represent a significant number of authorizations to transport that were issued prior to their becoming automatic.

[Sean Fraser, Liberal, Central Nova, NS]

Are those figures, the few hundred to a gunsmith or a gun show, national figures for a restricted firearm going to a gunsmith or a gun show across the entire country?

[Rob O'Reilly]

That's correct.

[Sean Fraser, Liberal, Central Nova, NS]

In an entire year?

[Rob O'Reilly]

That's correct.

[Sean Fraser, Liberal, Central Nova, NS]

With respect to the classification issue, one of the things that speaks to me is...I'm a big believer in making sure, whenever there is a discretionary power for a government or an agency, that the public understands why that discretionary power was exercised. A constituent raised specifically with me the fact that he's uneasy with both the RCMP and Parliament making the classification. I don't know who the best positioned person would be. Whoever it is, in my mind, should have some kind of a duty to explain why they've exercised their discretion.

Is there any safety risk that would come with requiring the RCMP to explain why they've classified a particular firearm in a particular way?

[Rob O'Reilly]

I can't speak to the notion of a safety risk, but I can speak to the determinations of classification that are made today. When the experts within the Canadian firearms program make the determinations of classifications, those determinations form part of a record which is known as the firearms reference table. There are approximately 180,000 in the firearms reference table today, and every firearm has the criteria by which the determination was made, including reference to the specific portion of the Criminal Code that was used in making that determination. While the firearms reference table isn't a document publicly available, or easily available, the determination of classification made on those firearms is a matter of public record.

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

You have a little less than a minute.

[Sean Fraser, Liberal, Central Nova, NS]

I am just revisiting the transportation issue in the less than a minute that I do have.

One of the things that I believe is not well understood by the general public is, in rough terms, what a restricted or prohibited firearm is. I know the minister was clear that the authorization to transport only impacts restricted firearms. Could you describe in a general way for the public what kind of a firearm we may be dealing with here?

[Rob O'Reilly]

When speaking of restricted firearms, most people think of handguns. Some handguns may also be qualified as prohibited. For example, certain short-barrelled firearms, such as a Second World War luger, may be deemed to be a prohibited firearm. There are other types of firearms that are prohibited because they are semi-automatic, or rather derivative of automatic firearms, or automatic firearms, but in most cases the transport of those firearms is pretty limited right now.

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

Thank you, Mr. Fraser.

Mr. Paul-Hus, you have seven minutes, please.

[Pierre Paul-Hus, Conservative, Charlesbourg—Haute-Saint-Charles, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Ladies and gentlemen, I have two or three questions for you.

The first pertains to background checks. Under Bill C-71, a person's entire life history will be checked. This applies to new applicants for a firearms licence.

First, do you know how many license holders there are in Canada right now?

Second, how will Bill C-71 affect crime in your communities?

[Rob O'Reilly]

I'm sorry, sir. I don't know if we understood. What was the question?

[Pierre Paul-Hus, Conservative, Charlesbourg—Haute-Saint-Charles, QC]

My questions pertain to background checks. How many firearms license holders are there in Canada right now?

Second, the act will apply primarily to new applicants, so the applicants will be younger and will not have a very long history. How will Bill C-71 address crime in your communities?

[Rob O'Reilly]

I guess I can only speak to the portion of your question that relates to firearms licensing. This element, to look at the entire life history of an individual, applies to new applicants and to those renewing firearms. Every five years an individual is asked to answer five personal history questions, which would include the same questions that are on the applications.

[Pierre Paul-Hus, Conservative, Charlesbourg—Haute-Saint-Charles, QC]

How many license holders are there right now?

[Rob O'Reilly]

We have approximately 2.1 million firearms licence holders in Canada right now. I believe we have roughly about 250,000 new applicants per year and roughly about 150,000 individuals who are renewing on an annual basis.