Evidence of meeting #117 for Public Safety and National Security in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was nations.
A recording is available from Parliament.
12:55 p.m.
Liberal
Sean Fraser Liberal Central Nova, NS
I just have 10 seconds left, I'm just curious with the transparency point I raised. Is that something that you think would be a positive development from OFAH?
I apologize for cutting you off.
12:55 p.m.
Manager, Fish and Wildlife Services, Ontario Federation of Anglers and Hunters
Absolutely, a standardized process that has that transparency: it's consistent, evidence-based, and shows that evidence with full consultation with firearms owners, as well as an appeal process. That's what we want.
12:55 p.m.
Liberal
12:55 p.m.
Conservative
Blaine Calkins Conservative Red Deer—Lacombe, AB
Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.
I appreciate the witnesses' testimony here. I have questions for all of you. I'm hoping to get to them. I just want to make sure that Mr. DeMille, the Hipwells, and everybody who is paying attention right now understands that Mr. Fraser brought this up. The chief firearms officer right now has warrantless access to all of the records at anybody's retail store. When the chiefs of police association witnesses were here previously at this committee, I asked the specific question about warrantless and warrant access to those records, and they said the line is fuzzy, which I think is something that we should be very concerned about.
My question is to the firearms instructors association. You said that gangsters are not getting their licences. Well, they didn't register their firearms in the long gun registry, either. You talked about falsified licences. The Minister of Public Safety made what I would consider a hopeless attempt to actually blame the sourcing of firearms that are used by gangs today on illegally obtained or stolen firearms from lawfully abiding firearms owners. You talked about the fact that organized crime might be actually using falsified licences right now. Is there anything in this bill that you're aware of, very briefly, gentlemen, that would deal with somebody who used a falsified licence to obtain a firearm?
12:55 p.m.
Master Instructor, North Island and Sunshine Coast Regional Director, Firearms Instructors Association Canada
There is a file on this instance with the RCMP. In Courtenay, British Columbia, there was a person making the counterfeit PAL, and apparently according to the source I talked to, he did a better job than the federal job. They were much more authentic. That being said, British Columbia is a hub for marijuana and other things. It's also a hub for its sport shooters. However, I am not aware of where those went. That's up to the RCMP.
12:55 p.m.
Master Instructor, North Island and Sunshine Coast Regional Director, Firearms Instructors Association Canada
It was there and that was reported to the firearms officer in Victoria.
12:55 p.m.
Conservative
Blaine Calkins Conservative Red Deer—Lacombe, AB
Okay. Thank you very much.
My next question is for Ms. Bear from the Assembly of First Nations. Do we still have her?
12:55 p.m.
Vice-Chief, Saskatchewan Region, Assembly of First Nations
Yes, I'm here.
12:55 p.m.
Conservative
Blaine Calkins Conservative Red Deer—Lacombe, AB
Notwithstanding the litany of things that you went through, and I certainly appreciate the fact that I think you're bang-on, on a wide number of those, especially the duty to consult. I don't want to talk about the duty to consult right now.
During the testimony from various witnesses before this committee, some of the members of this committee have used props. They have held up pictures of firearms that would be a semi-automatic .223 that could easily have a wooden stock and a hunting scope on it and still work the same way as another firearm. They have also held up some pictures of firearms that are bolt-action long-distance rifles that could be potentially used for hunting. I asked questions about various other calibres.
Are you aware that the appearance of a firearm, even if it happens to be a bolt-action firearm that might hold four rounds, is actually under scrutiny as something that could be or should be reclassified as a prohibited firearm in Canada? How would that make the hunters in the Assembly of First Nations feel?
1 p.m.
Vice-Chief, Saskatchewan Region, Assembly of First Nations
I think the infringement, first of all, on our treaty and inherent rights, the treaty right to hunt.... I'm around hunters all the time. I just don't see how gang issues come into, you know, restricting hunters from hunting. When you're part of a gang, it's lawless.
1 p.m.
Vice-Chief, Saskatchewan Region, Assembly of First Nations
They're not following the rules anyway.
1 p.m.
Vice-Chief, Saskatchewan Region, Assembly of First Nations
I mean, with all reason, we don't go out and shoot bear and moose with machine guns or you know—
1 p.m.
Conservative
Blaine Calkins Conservative Red Deer—Lacombe, AB
I understand that. My point is that a firearm that shoots a certain calibre, because it happened to be a military round.... We all know that military rounds also are hunting rounds. A .303 round, for example, is one of the most common military rounds in history, but it's also one of the most common hunting rounds we have.
As a matter of fact, the Canadian Rangers have just switched out from the .303 calibre bolt-action rifle here a little while ago.
1 p.m.
Vice-Chief, Saskatchewan Region, Assembly of First Nations
If I could interject, I do know first nations who are collectors as well, so something might fit in that category.
1 p.m.
Conservative
Blaine Calkins Conservative Red Deer—Lacombe, AB
Fair enough.
To our friends at the Ontario Federation of Anglers and Hunters, you mentioned some of the privacy concerns. We haven't had an opportunity to have the Privacy Commissioner before this committee. Do you think that might be a good idea?
1 p.m.
Manager, Fish and Wildlife Services, Ontario Federation of Anglers and Hunters
I don't know necessarily about having the commissioner and how that works with the committee, but I think with anything where you're talking about records, privacy is a fundamental concern.
1 p.m.
Conservative
Blaine Calkins Conservative Red Deer—Lacombe, AB
You said you had hundreds of thousands of members. Did you ask them any questions in your surveys about privacy?
1 p.m.
Manager, Fish and Wildlife Services, Ontario Federation of Anglers and Hunters
No, we did not.
1 p.m.
Conservative
Blaine Calkins Conservative Red Deer—Lacombe, AB
How would you generally feel, though? You would have a sense from your members of how they would feel about the privacy of their firearm information.
1 p.m.
Manager, Fish and Wildlife Services, Ontario Federation of Anglers and Hunters
That's an interesting point. We didn't ask the question, but in the comments we received it was in many different suggestions that we had and concerns that people had. It is top of mind for our members and the people who answered our survey.
May 31st, 2018 / 1 p.m.
Conservative
Blaine Calkins Conservative Red Deer—Lacombe, AB
Thank you. That's fair enough.
I have some questions for our witnesses from Wolverine Supplies.
This is the first time I've heard about this firearms reference table. I'm a member of Parliament. I've been a hunter. I've been a law enforcement officer. I've been issued firearms for my duties in law enforcement. I've grown up on a farm, and it was a rite of passage for me to receive my first .22 to go and shoot gophers for my father. When I see what happened with Bill C-68 and will happen moving forward, I wonder whether you can give us more clarification on why we should be concerned about this firearms reference table and clarify exactly why we're in this predicament.
I think there's a lot of consternation. I don't have a problem with the RCMP's expertise coming to bear on making decisions on classification, but I also want your opinions on whether you think they should be the only expertise coming to bear on making classification decisions.
