Evidence of meeting #120 for Public Safety and National Security in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was firearm.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Conservative
Luc Berthold Conservative Mégantic—L'Érable, QC
Thank you very much, Mr. Chair. I won't be here for very long.
I was asking myself the same kind of question concerning the 20-year retention period. How can we ask a business to keep records for such a long period of time given the way technologies evolve?
I had a technology-related problem. Even the hard disks that you buy in the stores only last 20 years. I'd like to know if we would be imposing penalties on people who could not keep these records as a result of equipment breakdowns or other similar problems. How can small businesses in particular manage this kind of request to store records a for 20 years when the technology can't preserve them for that length of time.
Director General, Policing and Firearms Policy, Department of Public Safety and Emergency Preparedness
Yes, the international standard for keeping records is at least 20 years. The United States requires 20 years, and the same period is proposed in Bill C-71.
Conservative
Director General, Policing and Firearms Policy, Department of Public Safety and Emergency Preparedness
The business is responsible for storing them.
Conservative
Luc Berthold Conservative Mégantic—L'Érable, QC
If the business can't rely on its electronic equipment to store records, it must keep paper records. That's its responsibility, regardless of the means it must use. Is that it?
Director General, Policing and Firearms Policy, Department of Public Safety and Emergency Preparedness
That's it.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal John McKay
Seeing no further debate on amendment CPC-32, we'll go to the vote.
(Amendment negatived [See Minutes of Proceedings])
We're on amendment CPC-33 in the name of Mr. Motz.
I'm assuming someone will move Mr. Motz's CPC-33.
Conservative
Conservative
Conservative
Blaine Calkins Conservative Red Deer—Lacombe, AB
This was introduced by my colleague, Mr. Motz:
That Bill C-71, in Clause 7, be amended by replacing lines 5 to 8 on page 8 with the following:
(b) the business must record and keep the following information
Basically what we're trying to do here is replace the current language proposed by the government. The government has made the case many times that this is not a registry, that it is a database of transactions through their office of the registrar. Now we have a database being kept in a distributed format at places of business. Should that place of business fold or cease its operations and not pass on that information, then it is passed on to the government for keeping.
In an effort to be consistent with the government claims that there isn't actually a registry of firearms, whether it's transactional or otherwise, I would suggest that we adopt the amendment by my colleague from Medicine Hat—Cardston—Warner so that we can have greater certainty that these records will not not cause any of the following three results: one, consternation for law-abiding firearms owners who do not wish to have the information about the firearms that they may or may not have in their possession getting into the wrong hands; two, as we've already seen with the previous registry that happened a long time ago through Bill C-68, the potential for escalating costs; and three, as has been suggested here through a number of questions I have asked, little or no increase in public safety.
I urge my colleagues here at the committee to adopt the motion.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal John McKay
Seeing no one wanting to debate, we'll vote on the amendment.
(Amendment negatived)
On amendment CPC-34, Mr. Paul-Hus.
Conservative
Pierre Paul-Hus Conservative Charlesbourg—Haute-Saint-Charles, QC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
The maximum records storage period is now 20 years, after which the records must be destroyed. Business owners therefore don't feel obliged to retain all records.
Mr. O'Reilly or Mr. Koops, is that consistent with what's done in the United States? Is it a logical length of time?
Director, Firearms Regulatory Services, Canadian Firearms Program, Royal Canadian Mounted Police
Sorry, I know the question was directed to me, but I'm not aware of the practices in the United States.
Conservative
Pierre Paul-Hus Conservative Charlesbourg—Haute-Saint-Charles, QC
And yet someone referred to the American procedure—it may have been Mr. Koops. So it's a 20-year period in the United States. Is that correct?
Director General, Policing and Firearms Policy, Department of Public Safety and Emergency Preparedness
It's 20 years in the United States.
Conservative
Pierre Paul-Hus Conservative Charlesbourg—Haute-Saint-Charles, QC
Are records stored for more than 20 years, or can businesses destroy them after 20 years?
Director General, Policing and Firearms Policy, Department of Public Safety and Emergency Preparedness
As it's worded in the standard, it's a period of 20 years.
Conservative
Director General, Policing and Firearms Policy, Department of Public Safety and Emergency Preparedness
Yes, but the Governor in Council may require that the period be longer.
I'm sorry, but I'm going to speak in English to be more precise.
If Canada wishes to enter into certain international treaties that relate to the retention of firearms data, the Governor in Council would have the ability to prescribe a longer period.