Public Safety Committee on Sept. 25th, 2018

[Bill Blair]

First of all, with respect to the U.S. border, we have been advised by the customs border patrol and the U.S. officials that they are not changing their policy or their line of questioning for Canadians presenting themselves at the border. Of course, as you are well aware, they are a sovereign nation, and we cannot dictate to them who they can or should allow into their country. They have indicated they have no intention of making any changes.

I will simply remind you that for the last five years, since 2013, Canada has had a very large and growing cannabis production industry for medical marijuana—licensed production—with thousands of Canadians, and which has attracted hundreds of millions of dollars in investment.

[Matthew Dubé, NDP, Beloeil—Chambly, QC]

Minister, with all due respect, I apologize for interrupting. My time is limited, and I only get one shot at this usually.

I just want to know whether you can assure this committee that Canada will be a strong voice speaking against the Americans arbitrarily refusing access to Canadians for—

[Bill Blair]

I wouldn't characterize it as against anyone, but we will always stand up for the lawful rights of Canadians. We are working very closely in the United States, making sure, first of all, that they understand the nature of the very strict regulatory regime we're putting in place.

We're also making sure that Canadians understand that although it may be legal on the Canadian side of the border, crossing the border with any amount of cannabis can constitute a serious criminal offence, in either direction. We want to make sure that no Canadian inadvertently gets in trouble with the law.

[Matthew Dubé, NDP, Beloeil—Chambly, QC]

I understand that. I just want to make clear that we are talking about folks who admit to having consumed but don't actually have any and are behaving in a lawful manner.

Can you address the amnesty piece?

[Bill Blair]

Yes. I will tell you one of the things that motivated me in this new legislation is to stop criminalizing our kids in particular. We know that's had a disparate impact in minority communities and indigenous communities.

[Matthew Dubé, NDP, Beloeil—Chambly, QC]

Will there be amnesty? Yes or no?

[Bill Blair]

What I will say is that how we might deal most appropriately with those existing records is very much under consideration. I don't have a final determination, but it's being given every consideration.

[Matthew Dubé, NDP, Beloeil—Chambly, QC]

Thank you, Minister.

You mentioned the issue of doing better than the current criminal prohibition. You just talked about the impact that this has on kids.

How do you square that circle with today signing on to a unilateral non-negotiable agreement with the U.S. to continue the failed war on drugs, considering that's something that has been denounced by the former prime minister of New Zealand and other world leaders, and goes against the multilateral approach your government seems to want to take?

I see a contradiction there. How do you square that circle?

[Bill Blair]

I would differentiate between cannabis and drugs that kill people, including the illicit opioids, crystal meth and other drugs. I think we have a responsibility to do everything possible to interdict the supply of those drugs coming in, but we have also—

[Matthew Dubé, NDP, Beloeil—Chambly, QC]

Which is fair, so why would we not do that with a multitude of countries? Why would we just take Donald Trump's unilateral proposal?

[Bill Blair]

I think what needs to be emphasized is that we have restored the harm reduction principle to the national drug strategy in this country. We have taken very significant steps, which I could reiterate if we had more time—and I will be happy to do it later—to ensure that harm reduction is a reality in our communities.

We're making investments, working with provinces and community organizations to restore the principle of harm reduction. This is a public health approach.

[Matthew Dubé, NDP, Beloeil—Chambly, QC]

That is fair, but I feel that if there's a unilateral proposal from the Americans and we have our other allies saying that we shouldn't be signing off on some unilateral non-negotiable agreement to continue a failed policy that goes against exactly the principles you're mentioning, how do we square that circle? Why won't Canada sit down with other countries and tackle the issue? You're absolutely right that these drugs are dangerous, but why adhere to failed policies that are being put forward by—

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

You're going to have to save that answer for another opportunity.

Thank you, Mr. Dubé.

Ms. Sahota, you have seven minutes. I believe you're splitting that time with Ms. Damoff.

[Ruby Sahota]

Yes, I am.

Thank you, Minister Blair, for being here today. These are all very important topics, and I know that Canadians are very interested in all of them. Thank you for taking on this challenging file.

In previous questioning, we heard quite a bit about reducing the number of irregular border crossers to zero. Have you looked back at data and the migration patterns that we've had over several decades? Was the irregular border crossing number zero under the Conservative government?

[Bill Blair]

I don't have that data, and perhaps I would ask some of the officials if they could tell you. I don't believe we ever achieved zero, but I think we should do everything possible—and that is my intent—to encourage anyone coming to Canada to cross at a regular border point. It's where the facilities and the resources are to deal with that most effectively. It is very much our intention to do everything possible to encourage those who choose to come to Canada for any reason to do so at a regular border crossing.

[Ruby Sahota]

Has the number ever been zero?

[Louis Dumas, Director General, Domestic Network, Operations, Department of Citizenship and Immigration]

If I may, Mr. Chair, we will have to double-check, but I believe it would be very improbable.

[Ruby Sahota]

Yes, and “very improbable” is what I've seen in my research that I've done. I've never seen the numbers so low.

I've also seen that there have been spikes at different times, given different issues that happen in global events, so what are our migration patterns? Is Canada the only country in the world that is dealing with irregular migrants? Or are other countries dealing with this? If so, what are the numbers there?

[Bill Blair]

I've been advised that there close to 65 million people who are currently in processes of migration. Around the world, we've seen significant movements of people and also a significant number of people who are fleeing persecution and the risk of death and are seeking asylum in various places around the world.

On the numbers that are affecting Canada, certainly it's an increase over what we previously experienced, but it's not without precedent in Canada. In 2012, as I recall, there was a significant number of people who presented themselves in seeking asylum in Canada—approximately 37,000 people. We also saw a very significant increase in 2002.

Going back through our history, with the Hungarians fleeing back in the mid-1950s and with the Vietnamese boat people, we've had significant surges of people as a result of events that take place in other parts of the world. Canada has a long tradition of upholding humanitarian principles. We just want to make sure that our laws are upheld appropriately as well.

[Ruby Sahota]

I believe the safe third country agreement was enacted in 2002, maybe in response to some of those surges. In 2012, when you said there was a surge, did the Conservative government cancel or change the safe third country agreement?

[Bill Blair]

That negotiation took place in 2002 and came into effect in December of 2004. I'm not aware of any efforts made by the Canadian government subsequently to cancel that agreement or to amend it in any significant way.

[Ruby Sahota]

That's interesting. Thank you.

[Bill Blair]

It may have happened, but I'm not aware of that.

[Ruby Sahota]

I'll pass this along to my colleague.

[Pam Damoff, Liberal, Oakville North—Burlington, ON]

Thank you, Minister, for being here.

Before I ask my question, I want to say that I have a University of Ottawa student shadowing me today: Henry Mann. I'm very proud that he's here to witness the committee meeting, but I'm really disappointed in the lack of civility that he is seeing at this table. It's unfortunate that our young people are witnessing this kind of lack of civility amongst colleagues.

My question, Minister, has to do with intimate partner violence and firearms. The Ontario coroner's death review panel showed in its most recent report, in 2016, that 26% of intimate partner deaths involved firearms. A woman wrote on my Facebook wall that she could withstand the psychological and physical abuse, but when he put the bullets in the shotgun, then she knew true terror. A study in rural Atlantic Canada found that two-thirds of women whose homes had firearms said that when they knew that firearms were present, they were less likely to come forward.

I'm just wondering if you can comment, Minister, on the correlation between firearms and intimate partner violence.