Public Safety Committee on Oct. 23rd, 2018

[Fredrick Priestley-Wright]

I have to apologize. They were both in remand centres. The one that is incarcerated is in the federal prison system. The other one has pleaded not guilty. I'm sorry. I'm not familiar with all of this terminology that's being used.

In my observation, after sitting through probably nine court hearings, why I feel that the system is overloaded is that so many issues are being set aside for another date and then another date simply because the defence lawyers and Crown haven't had time to get together all the information they require. I assume that's a lack of manpower. I could be totally wrong, but that is my observation from nine different sessions.

[Pierre Paul-Hus, Conservative, Charlesbourg—Haute-Saint-Charles, QC]

I'll come back to the RCMP investigation. As we know, the RCMP intervened, took your statement, investigated and laid charges.

Do you think the RCMP's work has been effective?

[Fredrick Priestley-Wright]

Yes, I do. They had these two culprits caught within at least three days. Through fingerprints and whatnot they were able to identify them quite readily, because these two individuals had other records, so to speak. I felt that the RCMP worked quite fast on this one.

[Pierre Paul-Hus, Conservative, Charlesbourg—Haute-Saint-Charles, QC]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

Thank you, Mr. Paul-Hus.

Madam Sahota, you have five minutes to finish it off.

[Ruby Sahota, Brampton North, Lib.]

Thank you.

I definitely sympathize with you, Mr. Priestley-Wright. That's a horrible incident that you had to go through. You're suffering physically from that as a result.

I also hear about a lot of incidents of property theft, many including violence, and even in my riding, which is a more urban riding in Brampton, a lack of police response. No one comes for days on end because it is just a property crime.

Do you feel that in the rural areas there's a lack of interest because it is property crime? In your case, the RCMP did respond, but we heard of a few other cases where response times were slow. We're facing similar issues in the urban areas when it comes to this. What's your opinion on that?

[Fredrick Priestley-Wright]

I think all of us in rural areas feel that the RCMP do a commendable job based on the staffing they have. They have to pick and choose a bit as well. They're not going to come and issue me with a warrant for driving 15 kilometres an hour over the speed limit when they have to be investigating a serious rural crime like the one I was involved in.

There are only so many of them. They're going full out as far as I'm concerned. They have to pick and choose a little bit.

[Ruby Sahota]

From some previous witnesses, we heard testimony in terms of the defence of property and being able to use handguns or a weapon. You were saying that in your scenario you did not have time to access anything like that. You didn't even have enough time to call the police at that moment. In terms of owning handguns and being able to use them more readily, do you think this is something that can help solve the issue of rural crime in your area or not?

[Fredrick Priestley-Wright]

I would suggest that everybody in my community has a long rifle and they know exactly where it is. Anybody who comes in and tries to beat my wife is probably going to be confronted with it, but—

[Ruby Sahota]

For property crime?

[Fredrick Priestley-Wright]

For property, again, I feel that the job is being done as accurately or as completely as it can be with the resources that are available and the time limits they have for dealing with minor property crime.

[Ruby Sahota]

Do you feel the resources are not enough, and maybe an increase in resources could better help alleviate some of the rural crime that's taking place?

[Fredrick Priestley-Wright]

As I indicated previously, these guys who are doing the thieving and whatnot, they are professional or semi-professional. They work so fast. They know where the police are. They know how long it's going to take them to get to the location that they have targeted.

[Ruby Sahota]

We have very similar situations in urban areas, too. People are quick. They get in and they get out. They know what they're doing.

I also found it very interesting that you said that not many of these robberies involve the use of long guns. Most of these crimes do not take place with a weapon involved, i.e., a gun. You said they use knives, mostly.

[Fredrick Priestley-Wright]

Well, knives are mostly used. The rural people are not paranoid. They are absolutely scared. With one individual—and this happened to him at noon, for example—they drove up to his shop, opened the door, and started unloading stuff out of his shop and whatnot. He hollered at them from the house. They told him to get back in the house or he'd get hurt. That's exactly what he did. He went in and phoned 911, and of course, by the time the RCMP could get there, those guys got what they wanted and were gone.

[Ruby Sahota]

Since you're a city councillor, how would you you define rural crime? That's something I've been thinking quite a lot about in this study. How is rural crime different from crime that happens in the cities? The actual act, why is it different?

[Fredrick Priestley-Wright]

For example, in the city they'll go and steal an item, essentially. They won't necessarily clean out a car, although if they know you're away, they'll go in and clean out your house. In a rural area, they really don't care what they take as long as they get a lot, because they know that is of value. They can sell that somewhere.

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

Thank you. We're going to have to leave it there.

Thank you, Ms. Sahota.

Before I let you go, Mr. Priestley-Wright, what was the time between when your wife called and when the RCMP arrived?

[Fredrick Priestley-Wright]

I suspect maybe half an hour, a little bit longer.

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

How far away do you live from the detachment?

[Fredrick Priestley-Wright]

Seventy kilometres.

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

Seventy kilometres?

[Fredrick Priestley-Wright]

Correct.

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

I thank you, on behalf of the committee, for sharing your story. It certainly is horrific. We're glad to see you on the mend, and we hope the mend continues.

Dr. Cukier, you're a familiar witness at this committee. Thank you for your testimony as well.

With that, we're going to suspend.

Before we impanel our other witnesses, we had an agreement that we would go in camera to discuss a little bit of committee business, and then call the next witnesses.

Is that the will of the committee? Do we still want to proceed that way?

[Some hon. members]

Agreed.