I'm sorry to interrupt.
Prior to my appointment, in the job I was in previously we had recommended and offered an approach to Correctional Service of Canada in the process of all of these court cases being developed.
At that time the Elizabeth Fry Society was the only organization recommending no segregation at all, and certainly not for women, and not for those with mental health issues. Many other groups are now on side with that, but at the time part of what we had done over the period of 20 or 25 years was we had worked with individuals and started to develop advocacy options within the prison, working with the institution—and, as you probably know, there are teams that go in once a month—and actually starting to break down those barriers. We had recommended setting up a team to look at every individual that the Correctional Service of Canada was considering segregating, and then we worked on a plan to assist them that involved a responsibility of community actors, a responsibility of legal counsel sometimes, a responsibility of the prison.
They refused to set up that kind of initiative, and in fact part of the reason so many people are saying we don't need it for women is that some of those measures toward that end were actually incredibly effective, and so many people, including those working within the Correctional Service, recognized that we actually don't need that process.
As for going into the men's prisons again and starting to have those conversations with men, I don't think we're there yet. I would be remiss if I actually said that we were, but the same arguments that you're hearing from men and that you heard from the witness here are what I heard from women when we first started that process. That's why we're starting to work with the men and going in and meeting with the lifers and the brotherhood, the indigenous men's groups, to start to deconstruct that as well in those contexts.