Evidence of meeting #140 for Public Safety and National Security in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was funding.
A video is available from Parliament.
5:10 p.m.
Brampton North, Lib.
Thank you.
I would like to give my remaining time to Mr. Sikand.
5:10 p.m.
Liberal
Gagan Sikand Liberal Mississauga—Streetsville, ON
Minister Blair, the community I represent wouldn't normally be seen as a community that would suffer from gun violence or any violence, to be honest, but we had a shooting four days ago. A young girl got shot. I want to get your comments on ammunition, because a gun is just a paperweight unless it has ammunition. I can only assume that ammunition is either coming in illegally from other jurisdictions or coming from a legal source and then into the black market. Can I have your comments on that, please?
5:10 p.m.
Minister of Border Security and Organized Crime Reduction
We're looking at a number of different measures that might be effective in reducing access to the tools that people have who are intent on committing violent crimes. We're prepared to look at every measure that can be effective in reducing the violence in our communities and the access that people have to guns. That includes things like better and more effective enforcement at the border, but it also includes reducing the way in which things leak out of the legitimate domestic market, out of the hands of law-abiding people and into the hands of people who would commit crimes. That would include looking at access to ammunition.
It's a difficult issue because, first of all, it's easily smuggled and easily obtained on a forged instrument, but there are a number of effective steps that can be taken, and we are examining them as part of our ongoing review that I'm conducting now.
5:10 p.m.
Conservative
The Vice-Chair Conservative Pierre Paul-Hus
Thank you, Mr. Blair.
Mr. Blaney, it's your turn. Go ahead.
5:15 p.m.
Conservative
Steven Blaney Conservative Bellechasse—Les Etchemins—Lévis, QC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Minister, it's a privilege to welcome you to the Standing Committee on Public Safety and National Security.
I was telling Mr. Goodale earlier that I used to be the Minister of Public Safety and Emergency Preparedness. Back then, we didn't need a special minister to deal with border security. The main border security issues were drug smuggling, illegal weapons and human trafficking. However, since Justin Trudeau's #WelcomeToCanada tweet, a new issue has emerged. Then, finally, five months ago, a position was created for a new minister because Canada's border had become a sieve.
You talked about people crossing the border irregularly. We believe that those who enter the country irregularly are doing so illegally. I think it's important to use the right terminology. Minister, do you share my view that entering Canada from the U.S. between border checkpoints is an illegal act?
5:15 p.m.
Minister of Border Security and Organized Crime Reduction
You raised two important points that I'm very pleased to have the opportunity to address. First of all—
5:15 p.m.
Conservative
Steven Blaney Conservative Bellechasse—Les Etchemins—Lévis, QC
My apologies, Minister, but I'd like a short answer, please.
If an individual—be they Canadian, American or a prospective refugee claimant once in Canada—crosses into Canada between border checkpoints, are they entering the country illegally? I'd like a clear answer because it's important that we agree on the facts, even if we don't necessarily agree on how to fix the problem.
5:15 p.m.
Minister of Border Security and Organized Crime Reduction
Let me be brief and quick.
First of all, your suggestion that the global migration of people fleeing persecution was caused by a tweet is laughable.
5:15 p.m.
Conservative
Steven Blaney Conservative Bellechasse—Les Etchemins—Lévis, QC
No, I don't think there's anything funny about it.
5:15 p.m.
Minister of Border Security and Organized Crime Reduction
Second, anyone entering this country across the border at any place other than a regular point is unlawful.
However, once the individual—
5:15 p.m.
Conservative
Steven Blaney Conservative Bellechasse—Les Etchemins—Lévis, QC
It's illegal. That's what I wanted to hear.
Thank you. We agree on that.
5:15 p.m.
Conservative
5:15 p.m.
Minister of Border Security and Organized Crime Reduction
You know that the whole answer is important when you're talking about the law.
5:15 p.m.
Conservative
Steven Blaney Conservative Bellechasse—Les Etchemins—Lévis, QC
It's important to call a spade a spade.
5:15 p.m.
Minister of Border Security and Organized Crime Reduction
The moment they claim asylum—
5:15 p.m.
Minister of Border Security and Organized Crime Reduction
—their presence in the country ceases to be illegal. Under international convention and Canadian law, the moment they seek the protection of Canada, their presence in this country ceases to be unlawful.
5:15 p.m.
Conservative
Steven Blaney Conservative Bellechasse—Les Etchemins—Lévis, QC
We agree. Thank you, Minister, for answering my question. It's illegal, or unlawful, to enter Canada illegally. It took a bit of time, but I finally got us to agree on the facts.
Once these people have entered the country illegally, the provinces are on the hook for the bill, all because of Justin Trudeau's monumental mistake. We are talking about $600 million, Minister. Today's discussion is about supplementary estimates (A). Have you earmarked enough funds to reimburse the $600 million in costs incurred by Quebec and Ontario?
5:15 p.m.
Minister of Border Security and Organized Crime Reduction
Yes, the discussions on the costs experienced by other jurisdictions for temporary housing are not contained in these estimates.
5:15 p.m.
Conservative
Steven Blaney Conservative Bellechasse—Les Etchemins—Lévis, QC
That means the provinces still need the $600 million they have been calling for for months, if not years. In other words, the federal government has made a mistake, leaving the provinces to pick up the pieces, and you haven't set aside any money to pay them back. In your opening statement, however, you said that the government was making an investment. It's rather disappointing that those who have to pick up the pieces aren't being paid back.
Minister, when are you going to pay the provinces back? They are left holding the bag because of Justin Trudeau and the Liberals.
5:15 p.m.
Minister of Border Security and Organized Crime Reduction
I can advise this committee that the federal government has offered money for temporary housing to both the Province of Quebec and the Province of Ontario. So far, both of those entities have declined to accept the money that was offered. We have also made money directly available to the City of Toronto, $11 million to address some of the costs incurred for temporary housing.
5:15 p.m.
Conservative
Steven Blaney Conservative Bellechasse—Les Etchemins—Lévis, QC
Nearly 40,000 people have crossed into Canada illegally, even though we have an immigration system in place. We proudly welcome people in need from all over the world who follow the proper procedures.
You said that some people enter the country in an irregular way, which is unlawful. That means people are entering Canada illegally. Afterwards, other procedures follow.
You mentioned earlier that the number of seasonal illegal immigrants had dropped, but you also talked about the flow of migrants. As everyone knows, a caravan of illegal migrants is currently heading for the U.S.
Have you taken any preventative measures so that it doesn't impact our border and so that Canadians are not once again left holding the bag because of a decision Justin Trudeau made? After all, he did invite everyone to come on in, opting not to enforce border rules.
5:20 p.m.
Minister of Border Security and Organized Crime Reduction
Mr. Chair, perhaps it's the translation, but I made no mention of a caravan.