Evidence of meeting #15 for Public Safety and National Security in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was paramedics.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Commissioner, Correctional Service of Canada
That's right, and it includes not only existing staff but staff who had retired as well.
Liberal
Marco Mendicino Liberal Eglinton—Lawrence, ON
And of that 27, are you able to break down how many were successful in committing suicide?
Commissioner, Correctional Service of Canada
It was 12 who committed suicide, of which seven were existing employees.
Liberal
Marco Mendicino Liberal Eglinton—Lawrence, ON
Do you know where these suicides were committed, in other words, in connection with particular penitentiaries, like maximum security?
Commissioner, Correctional Service of Canada
They covered the range of security levels, and they were across the country.
Liberal
Marco Mendicino Liberal Eglinton—Lawrence, ON
Mr. Poirier, I understand there was an online survey that was conducted, and just to quickly review some of the statistics, 30% of those within the paramedic community actually contemplated suicide. That is of what larger number of total paramedics? Was it 17,000?
Executive Director, Paramedic Association of Canada
That was a group of 6,000 respondents.
Liberal
Marco Mendicino Liberal Eglinton—Lawrence, ON
Okay. But 6,000 respondents representative of what population...?
Executive Director, Paramedic Association of Canada
Of our total community—
Liberal
Marco Mendicino Liberal Eglinton—Lawrence, ON
Okay.
Mr. Head, it's back to you. Are you able to say with some degree of confidence that these suicides were in connection with either occupational stress or PTSD?
Commissioner, Correctional Service of Canada
I can't say definitively. In a couple of cases that I do know, there were issues that had been going on throughout their last couple of years at work, so to draw a parallel, I would say yes. But to definitively say in every case, I can't do that. I can't make that statement.
Liberal
Marco Mendicino Liberal Eglinton—Lawrence, ON
Mr. Poirier, I gather there was some context to this online survey that made reference to either occupational stress or PTSD. Are you able to shed any light on the correlation, not necessarily the causation but the correlation, between the 30% who personally contemplated suicide and the pre-existing OSI or PTSD?
Executive Director, Paramedic Association of Canada
My apologies, but I'm not sure if I follow you.
Our survey was of 6,000, with 30% who had contemplated suicide; and the number that we reported from last year, I think, was 14 suicides of paramedics. That was a separate data point. It wasn't related to the survey itself. I'm not sure if I'm answering your question, so my apologies.
Liberal
Marco Mendicino Liberal Eglinton—Lawrence, ON
So, 14 of the 40,000...correct? Okay.
And are you able to shed any light on whether or not you think there is a correlationship between the 14 who successfully committed suicide and PTSD and OSI?
Executive Director, Paramedic Association of Canada
I think that goes back to Mr. O'Toole's inquiry with respect to the fact that the incidence of suicide amongst paramedics is higher than the general population, so our assertion has been yes, it is related to mental illness. Is it directly related to PTSD? I cannot state that, but it is related to mental illness, yes.
Liberal
Marco Mendicino Liberal Eglinton—Lawrence, ON
I'd like to ask you about your definition of “critical incidents”. How do you define critical incidents?
Mr. Head.
Commissioner, Correctional Service of Canada
We have a series of issues that are listed in our commissioner's directive. We can make a copy available, but it includes everything from violent assaults, inmates assaulting each other, assault on staff members, responding to individuals who have attempted suicide, responding to a death of an inmate, and issues where any sort of violence has been involved, including individuals who have been taken hostage. We have quite an extensive list.
Liberal
Marco Mendicino Liberal Eglinton—Lawrence, ON
Mr. Mellow, do you have a similar working definition of critical incidents?
President, Paramedic Chiefs of Canada
We do not really attempt to define a critical incident. A critical incident for each individual person is very different. For someone today, it may be a trauma. For someone else, it may be a death that we would experience in the line of duty. In our normal routines, it's the other stressors within that person that make that a critical incident. So we don't define them.
Liberal
Marco Mendicino Liberal Eglinton—Lawrence, ON
Lastly, I'd like to ask you about whether or not you think there is merit to really centralizing a lot of the research and the efforts to address OSI and PTSD. I take it from some of your earlier testimony that you do, but I'd like you to elaborate on that in the time we have remaining, because the words that I jotted down were “broader collaboration”, and I think that as a member of this committee—and I've said this before—we have a fair bit of research out there. It comes from different areas and from different experts. Would you just take a moment or two to explain why it is that broader collaboration is so important in this area?
President, Paramedic Chiefs of Canada
I did stress in my presentation that I think that broader collaboration is critically important. My colleague, Mr. Poirier, described something earlier regarding a foundation that we need to build to support our first responder community. I think that foundation is made up of a lot of different elements, and these research pieces that you acknowledge exist are each blocks within that foundation. We know they're out there. We need to bring them together.
A project like the Canadian institute for public safety research and treatment is absolutely an option for us to bring all of that together. In isolation, I'm afraid that we are not putting evidence-based programs in place. I think R2MR is great. We don't know yet if that's the perfect solution for our community. It's working, I think, in others. We need to add building blocks to that foundation, find out those successes in the other communities, and bring them together. I think that's an example of how it could work.
Liberal
Marco Mendicino Liberal Eglinton—Lawrence, ON
I think my time is up. I just wonder if in 10 seconds I could ask whether or not Mr. Head echoes those sentiments.
Commissioner, Correctional Service of Canada
I agree. The more that we can do things in collaboration, the better use of resources we'll get. The dollars for addressing this kind of issue are thin. If we have research going on all across the country and it's not being matched up, we're not going to have the right answer. We need the right response for the right people at the right time with the right treatment base.