I think there are state actors and state actors. I think China and Russia are at the top of the league. They spend almost unlimited resources on their cyber-capabilities. They're very, very good at it. I think it's generally accepted that China uses the vacuum cleaner approach. They'll grab just about anything they can. The Russians, I think, are somewhat better technologically and more surgical in what they seek to acquire.
I think international criminal groups are not at that level, but they're getting to be very, very good. It's a very smart collection of people there, who have figured out that it's easier to enrich themselves using cyber devices than using kinetic action of some form or other. Also, there are no borders, and to the extent that there are no borders, it's far easier.
I guess the last group I would mention is terrorist groups. They're in a different category. Some of them have a limited cyber-capability. It's not really worldwide.
I guess the point I would make again is that the state actors in particular make it important that we regard cyber-defences as evergreen. I'm not talking in particular about Mr. Ryland's company, but for any protective measures that we put in place, if we have a really aggressive actor and we give them enough time and technology, they'll find a way around them. My point is, we need to constantly renew our defensive measures. We need to constantly advance our technology, mostly against nation-states, but increasingly against international criminal groups.