Evidence of meeting #38 for Public Safety and National Security in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was rcmp.
6:15 p.m.
As an Individual
I'm afraid it does.
I'm afraid it does. I could say things now that would get me in trouble just because I'm thinking a certain way.
With the FLQ crisis, I believe that was a special state of emergency, wasn't it, where they had extra powers, and regular, right, so that was a...?
6:15 p.m.
Conservative
6:15 p.m.
As an Individual
The War Measures Act was in effect, but I don't want to have to live under the war measures effect, where they just have.... You know, I can be monitored, right? I can be surveilled just because somebody feels like it. That's just way too broad.
6:15 p.m.
Conservative
Larry Miller Conservative Bruce—Grey—Owen Sound, ON
Okay. What would you say to the two soldiers who were killed two years ago, one in the Montreal area and one in Ottawa? The powers that be, the experts—and I'm not an expert on the subject—said that they knew those people were a threat. They took their passports and stuff like that, but they couldn't detain them. They said that if they had have been able to detain them, Private Vincent and Corporal Cirillo would probably be alive today.
Those same people said that with what happened in the last month in Strathroy, Ontario, which is just two hours away from where I live, they wouldn't have gotten that guy without those powers. I'm not saying that all those powers are the right thing, but you've got to have something.
I'm going to end it with that, Mr. Chair.
6:15 p.m.
As an Individual
I think that's a false economy. You cannot think somebody's possibly going to do something and lock them up or take action against them. You have to have a free society. I have to be free to move without the government taking action against me because it doesn't like the colour of my coat, my hair, or the things I say. The whole thought in Canada of thought police where it's not okay to think certain things...I don't know—
6:15 p.m.
Conservative
Larry Miller Conservative Bruce—Grey—Owen Sound, ON
The instance I just mentioned, sir, has nothing to do with the colour of your coat or the colour of your hair.
6:15 p.m.
As an Individual
That's right, but you're saying if they had a chance to lock these people up before they could have committed those crimes...is that what you want to do? You're saying they knew that these folks were suspicious and that they might do something and now you want the power to lock them up before they actually commit a crime. Is that what you're implying?
6:15 p.m.
Conservative
6:15 p.m.
Conservative
6:15 p.m.
As an Individual
You're not going to prevent every terrorism act by locking up people you are suspicious of. You'll lock up the whole country.
6:15 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Rob Oliphant
I'm going to suggest we end the dialogue there. I think you've made your point very well and it's a point that has been made by many people across the country, as we've heard. You're not alone in your opinions about that topic and the committee has taken it very seriously.
6:15 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Rob Oliphant
I meant to mention, because it was raised, that transcripts from all of our meetings will be available in about two weeks, maybe a little longer. You can get them at our committee website. You can get a copy of the transcript of what was said online. The reason we ask for your identity, your contact information, at the door is that if there is a misunderstanding or someone prepares the transcript and doesn't know what was said, we can verify it with you. That's what happens. The clerk holds that information until the end of the study and then destroys it. We don't retain that information.
We have one last speaker and that is Hannah Dawson-Murphy.
6:15 p.m.
Hannah Dawson-Murphy As an Individual
Hi, everyone.
Thank you for taking the time to consult us on this matter. It's extremely important in my opinion and in the opinion of a lot of other Canadians. Terrorism is evolving and we've seen that it's picked up speed in the last 20 years and continues to threaten our everyday lives with new developments and new technologies.
As a student, I have focused my research and my studies on this topic. I've tried in the last couple of years to grasp this whole concept of terrorism, but I've also tried to grasp how a government can protect its people from this ever-evolving threat.
The measures outlined in Bill C-51 in my opinion are the right balance between protecting our rights as Canadians while also protecting Canadians' lives. We must keep in mind that Canada is not immune to terrorist attacks and home-grown radicalization. We currently have around 180 Canadians who are suspected of engaging in terrorist activities abroad, and we also have around 60 extremists who have returned to Canada after travelling overseas.
These rising numbers don't even include the people who are here now who are radicalized and haven't left, and who can take action at any moment. We've had two of our own military members lose their lives to terrorism-related activities, and I believe that if we'd had the measures imposed by Bill C-51 two years ago they might still be alive today. I hope as a committee you will work to ensure that our national security framework protects Canadians from this ever-changing threat, and I hope you will take my advice in this matter.
That's all I have to say.
6:20 p.m.
Liberal
6:20 p.m.
Conservative
Dianne Lynn Watts Conservative South Surrey—White Rock, BC
Yes, thank you very much for coming out and sharing your opinion.
When you said you were doing research, is this university research? What was it based on?
6:20 p.m.
As an Individual
It's mostly for my own personal interest. I have been focusing on Operation Impact ever since 2014 when we sent our CF-18s over to Iraq and Syria. On my own personal time, I took some terrorism-related courses on public safety, and if I end up going to higher education, I plan on pursuing defence studies and policies.
6:20 p.m.
Conservative
6:20 p.m.
As an Individual
It looks like you have some time. I have a whole research practicum on this.
6:20 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Rob Oliphant
I believe that you have the card for the clerk. We'll receive that. Everything that comes in will be considered for sure, so we thank you for that.
We thank you all for your participation tonight. One always wonders in a small group if you are going to learning something, and I have, and I think the whole committee has. We thank you for enriching our understanding of the national security issues and the preservation of our rights. I think what we are about to do is try to figure out how we keep Canadians safe and safeguard our rights at the same time, and that is our challenge.
I just wanted to take a moment, because this is our last of 10 meetings, to formally thank the people who have facilitated our trip this week and these 10 meetings, and who made sure that it got into our public record and that they have done that work. I want to start by thanking our clerk, Jean-Marie David, who manages us. The concept of a clerk is quite a wonderful old tradition, but it doesn't at all signify the modern tasks that are required of handling members of Parliament, and arrangements, and other stuff. Thank you, Jean-Marie, for this work.
Tanya Dupuis is our analyst, and sometimes our therapist as well, who keeps us informed. She is our researcher, and she ensures that we are prepared for these meetings. Thank you for being so diligent and for being so well informed over so many years. You bring a wealth of knowledge, and that doesn't just happen with people who have recently come to the topic. We are very much enriched by that.
There's a whole logistics team Suzie Larocque has managed out there. Karen Thrieptland was with us out west, and Robert Hoffman is with us in this area. We thank you for that logistics work.
Lynne Noël and Martin Chayer are back there. Their work is ongoing to make sure that we're getting the right words written down and that our records will be complete and pretty perfect.
In the booth, we've had a variety of interpreters. Le chef is Anton-Emmanuel Demarchi, who has been with us for the whole trip. Krissi Michaud has been with us the last three days. We're not supposed to mention it's her birthday today, but I'm mentioning it anyway. We thank her for working with us on her birthday. Anna Fletcher was in Vancouver and Calgary, Patrice Schmitt and Josée Beauregard have been with us in this last part, and Eva Wilde was with us in Montreal. To all of them, thank you. On behalf of the committee, I extend thanks.
Mr. Miller.
6:25 p.m.
Conservative
Larry Miller Conservative Bruce—Grey—Owen Sound, ON
I should have had this in before you did the thank yous, and happy birthday, by the way.
I just wanted to say to everyone that came tonight and spoke, and not just the ones who spoke, but the ones who came, that we've heard a lot of different things over the course of our meetings. Quite often we hear criticisms, but we don't hear solutions. Anybody, when you're submitting, I encourage you to submit, but also to say, “This is wrong, committee, but this is how I think it should be fixed.” Those kinds of things are valuable for me, and I think for all the members. That's all I wanted to say.