Yes, and it's very complex. I know I'm supposed to give brief answers, and I'm sorry.
Access to programs and program capacity: that is an issue in general. Making sure that people get access to programs in a timely way, that the programs are, very importantly, delivered by somebody who is competent to deliver them, and that the programs are delivered at the right time in the sentence are all geared toward supervised structured release. We know that the right program interventions leading to timely release with good supervision in the community is the key to success. We know that the key to failure is not doing that.
When you now apply that knowledge to what's happening with indigenous offenders, you find some contradictions. You may have an indigenous individual who is very engaged with their culture and their identity and engaged in cultural programming. You may have another indigenous individual who isn't. The one who is will gain access to Pathways units, will be interacting with an elder. The one who isn't won't have that. So sometimes there's a barrier to programs, depending on the level of individual awareness or engagement with their indigenous heritage, and that's an issue for CSC to deal with.
We have some very good programs, and we have a great catalogue of programs, but that catalogue of programs doesn't often mirror what's actually happening in the institutions. There are all kinds of challenges involved in having the right people—