Evidence of meeting #49 for Public Safety and National Security in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was decision.
A video is available from Parliament.
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Director, Canadian Security Intelligence Service
They had been made aware that the program was in place, yes.
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Liberal
Nicola Di Iorio Liberal Saint-Léonard—Saint-Michel, QC
Okay.
Did the judge deal with the reasons why the Privacy Commissioner did not react to that information?
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Director, Canadian Security Intelligence Service
No. Actually, Justice Noël said that he did not express an opinion on the entire matter of privacy in his decision.
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Liberal
Nicola Di Iorio Liberal Saint-Léonard—Saint-Michel, QC
My question was actually more specific. The judge paid no attention to it?
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Liberal
Nicola Di Iorio Liberal Saint-Léonard—Saint-Michel, QC
You were criticized for your lack of transparency and candour. However, you told the Privacy Commissioner what you were doing.
4:50 p.m.
Director, Canadian Security Intelligence Service
Once again, Mr. Frater can comment on that. However, the Federal Court decision deals with our responsibility to be transparent and candid with the Federal Court. Despite the fact that we had advised the departments, SIRC and the inspector general, we had failed in our duty and responsibility to be transparent with the Federal Court.
The major reason why I included that in my comments is to show that the intention of the service was not to keep this program secret. We were not trying to hide the existence of the program. We advised people, except the Federal Court, and that was a mistake.
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Liberal
Nicola Di Iorio Liberal Saint-Léonard—Saint-Michel, QC
How many opportunities did you have to reveal what you were doing to the Federal Court?
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Director, Canadian Security Intelligence Service
An opportunity certainly arose when the program was created.
As indicated in Justice Noël's decision, the program's existence was mentioned at one point in 2011, but only in passing. According to the Federal Court, it was not done thoroughly enough to really allow the program itself to be understood, especially the fact that we were retaining all the associated data.
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Liberal
The Chair Liberal Rob Oliphant
Thank you, Mr. Coulombe and Mr. Di Iorio.
We now move to Mr. Clement.
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Conservative
Tony Clement Conservative Parry Sound—Muskoka, ON
I just want to make sure I understand exactly what is going on now.
Mr. Coulombe, you still retain the information but have closed access to it. Is that right?
4:50 p.m.
Director, Canadian Security Intelligence Service
Yes, in terms of the information that is subject to the ruling, it is still retained, but no one has access, and no one can use it in terms of doing analytics.
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Conservative
Tony Clement Conservative Parry Sound—Muskoka, ON
Then you say efforts are also under way to develop and implement appropriate policies and procedures that clearly address the court's concern. Are you working on a policy that would then regain access to the information consistent with the court judgment? Is that what you are working on? Why are you keeping the information if you do not have access to it?
4:50 p.m.
Director, Canadian Security Intelligence Service
It may be important to note that Judge Noël did not order the destruction of the information in question. At the moment, we're keeping it because we are continuing our analysis of the decision and what it means for the impact on the organization.
There could also be other reasons why we do not want to destroy the information at this time.
Rob, is there anything you want to add?
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Conservative
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Conservative
Tony Clement Conservative Parry Sound—Muskoka, ON
Yes, I'm sure.
I'm just trying to figure something out. Let me just be theoretical here. Is that information theoretically hackable?
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Director, Canadian Security Intelligence Service
It is because our system is not connected to the outside.
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Conservative
Tony Clement Conservative Parry Sound—Muskoka, ON
Okay. What if you have someone from the inside who has access?
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Director, Canadian Security Intelligence Service
There is always the insider threat, yes, but again, there are a number of measures the service is taking, not just with that specific data bank, but with all of our holdings in terms of mitigating the risk of insider threat.
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Conservative
Tony Clement Conservative Parry Sound—Muskoka, ON
So the risk is mitigated, but it is not impossible.
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Director, Canadian Security Intelligence Service
Like any risk, you cannot say you'll bring it down to zero.