Evidence of meeting #52 for Public Safety and National Security in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was attacks.
A recording is available from Parliament.
4:05 p.m.
Director of Policy, Centre for Israel and Jewish Affairs
I think the model in Germany that's being piloted right now is a good one. I know they're looking to implement it nationally if it's successful in—
4:05 p.m.
NDP
Matthew Dubé NDP Beloeil—Chambly, QC
I don't want to cut you off, but I'm interested in that and I was going to ask you about it. Just before you go on, I know you mentioned that it was perhaps too early to talk about it, but is there anything preliminary you'd be able to share with us?
4:05 p.m.
Director of Policy, Centre for Israel and Jewish Affairs
Preliminarily speaking, it seems to be successful. They seem to be moving forward. The reports of anti-Semitism appear to be diminishing.
I don't think the radicalization process happens overnight, so I think it's something they need to look at over a period of time. Preparing teachers to deal with this is certainly an important element. I'm sure that individual teachers are well equipped just naturally to handle a situation like this and to handle a student who's susceptible or vulnerable or who is being groomed for radicalization, but most, I imagine, are not. I don't presume that there's a formal training to assist them and to give them the tools they need in order to help youth.
Teachers are on the front lines. Teachers are some of the most important people in terms of shaping future Canadians, and if we can integrate our radicalization-prevention efforts and our hate-prevention efforts at that level, I think we'll have a big impact.
4:05 p.m.
NDP
Matthew Dubé NDP Beloeil—Chambly, QC
I'm going to change gears a bit. Certainly, the SIP is something that's important, and certainly we're happy. Especially after what happened in Quebec City, I think it was the right move on the government's part to extend the deadline, because people become more sensitive to the need for and even the availability of a program like that.
There's one thing I'm particularly interested in hearing about. I'll admit—and you said it yourself—that not everyone realizes that security guards and things like that.... Especially in a place of faith where people go to pray and come together as a community, those things can be jarring. I'm wondering how we reconcile the need for physical security with this, and what other measures can be taken to make a community feel that it can be at home in its place of worship.
4:05 p.m.
Director of Policy, Centre for Israel and Jewish Affairs
That's a very interesting question. Certainly, we all feel it when we see the security guards and when we have to pass through. I work in the Jewish community centre in Toronto. To get to my office, I have to clear, I think, two security checkpoints in order to get through. It's something you notice. You notice the measures that are in place outside as well, or at least I do.
I don't think there's an easy answer there. I think we're willing to make the sacrifice of having those things in our face in order to prevent terrible things from happening. When you see....
Yes, I have to pass a security check, the same as I would here. I have a pass, so it's easier. This is just the reality of how it is. Seeing successful attacks that have taken place internationally scares people more than do the actual measures put in place to prevent that kind of thing.
4:05 p.m.
Director of Policy, Centre for Israel and Jewish Affairs
You can look at the alternative in a place such as France. After the attack that took place in Paris, France, you had 5,000 French soldiers deployed to Jewish community institutions to safeguard them. I prefer to have some security infrastructure put in place that monitors the outside, that prevents unfettered access to the inside, and that has a security guard when things are acute, rather than having soldiers with automatic weapons posted at every single building.
I have to tell you that there are many in our community who feel that they should have soldiers posted outside community buildings, because they're scared without them there. It's a complicated thing.
4:05 p.m.
Liberal
Pam Damoff Liberal Oakville North—Burlington, ON
Thank you very much.
Thank you for being here. As I was listening to you speak, I was thinking that because the Jewish community has been targeted more than any other group over the years, I find that the community itself is probably the most sympathetic and most proactive in supporting the Muslim community as they are facing hate crimes. That's just a comment about what you were saying. I've noticed it in my own community.
About five years ago, CIJA ran a pilot program in Toronto. It was called the “community security network”. It trained volunteers with observational and counter-surveillance techniques to mitigate terrorism threats and vandalism to area synagogues, schools, and community centres. I wonder if you could comment on how the program went and whether you could give us any recommendations based on that pilot.
4:10 p.m.
Director of Policy, Centre for Israel and Jewish Affairs
I'm going to take the opportunity afforded by your kind comment about our working with other groups to plug Bill C-305 again. I know that we have been working hard to mobilize, and I think we had 20 other groups across all faiths mobilize, in support of it. It's actually a good example of what we can accomplish beyond ourselves when we all come together.
In terms of the security training and programs of that sort, certainly focused in the GTA but nationally as well, we provide audits to Jewish community institutions. We go in and have some experts on staff give advice to the institution about how they can better secure the premises, whether it's putting bulletproof film on the windows or suggesting what types of infrastructure they may need to be putting in place, or how to apply for SIP grants and things like that. That has been tremendously impactful.
In addition, we train lay people, groups of volunteers, at these institutions, whether it's synagogues or community centres, about how to approach security and how to respond when there's an incident, so that there's an understanding of what to do and who to call when something happens, and so there's a coordinated approach that's based on best practices from law enforcement.
4:10 p.m.
Liberal
Pam Damoff Liberal Oakville North—Burlington, ON
Do you see any way that it could be incorporated into a larger federal initiative? Obviously you're limited in how many places of worship you can visit.
4:10 p.m.
Director of Policy, Centre for Israel and Jewish Affairs
In addition to the infrastructure, people need to know what infrastructure they need. There are a lot of consultants out there who will tell them. Some of them are great; others are less great, and that's the way it is.
4:10 p.m.
Liberal
4:10 p.m.
Director of Policy, Centre for Israel and Jewish Affairs
If there's a way to minimize the less-great ones, that would be great, and for sure, training people.... We have a tremendous working relationship with police on this stuff. It's an informal relationship. It's not something that's institutionalized, but I think it would really be helpful to other communities as well to develop those relationships with the police. You know who to call, you know who's going to respond, you know, if there's an incident, how to approach the police in a way that will make everything work as seamlessly as possible. There's definitely a lot of room for coordination in that regard.
4:10 p.m.
Liberal
Pam Damoff Liberal Oakville North—Burlington, ON
We had a witness appear who said that the solutions or strategies should not be legislative or come from the top down, and he talked about how they come from police clubs, mosques, church organizations, and social clubs. It's not exclusively or primarily lodged in law enforcement but instead takes a broad view of community safety and well-being. You and I were speaking earlier about Rabbi Wise in my community, who was one of the founders of the Interfaith Council of Halton. Last Friday they organized a circle of peace at the Al Falah Islamic Centre in my riding. I'm wondering if you could speak about community programs like that, whereby we're bringing the community and faith groups together, and how we can use those types of programs and initiatives to fight hate and radicalization.
4:10 p.m.
Director of Policy, Centre for Israel and Jewish Affairs
Certainly having members of a faith group can see that the other, who is often the target of hate, isn't loathsome and isn't what they've been built up to be is important. That's the core of it. Sometimes that's difficult to do at the institutional level, and it's easier to do people to people, individual to individual, clergy to clergy, but it's something we prioritize in our work. We have a team within our organization focused exclusively on building partnerships with other communities, not just faith communities but all different segments of Canadian society, because even in terms of advocacy, we can accomplish way more working together than any of us can individually. It's important that we find those opportunities to work together on things of common cause and to build bridges wherever possible across all levels.
4:15 p.m.
Liberal
Pam Damoff Liberal Oakville North—Burlington, ON
Do you find it difficult to engage youth in those programs? I've noticed adults come out and are part of the circle of peace. There's a young lady in my riding who's reached out to Rabbi Wise from a mosque to see if they can engage younger people, but there hasn't been an awful lot of uptake on getting young people involved in those interfaith and community groups. I wonder if you could comment on that.
4:15 p.m.
Director of Policy, Centre for Israel and Jewish Affairs
I think youth engagement is a problem writ large, not just on this front. I can tell you that there's a lot of outreach happening on university campuses. I know there's Hillel, which is the Jewish campus organization that tries to create a Jewish space on campus and a centre for Jewish life on campus. I know that at a number of universities there have been partnerships with Muslim students, for example, and Christian student groups on a number of things, inviting groups to participate in the Jewish activities and going out and participating in the activities of others, whether they are Indo-Canadian clubs or LGBTQ clubs. Whatever it is in terms of engaged students in campus life, those connections have been happening. It's very difficult for institutions to bring in youth anyway. I don't know the answer.
4:15 p.m.
Conservative
Dianne Lynn Watts Conservative South Surrey—White Rock, BC
Thank you very much. I appreciate all the good work you do.
I always think of a focal point, of how things can come together, of how we have discussions to come up with plans to deal with some of these issues. We've heard a number of pieces throughout the hearings of some of the things that can be done.
A number of years ago, the Office of Religious Freedom was set up. That mandate was to protect and advocate on behalf of religious minorities under threat, to oppose religious hatred and intolerance, and to promote Canadian values of pluralism and tolerance. That office had a $5-million budget. I would have thought that would provide a platform and an avenue for dialogue in terms of bringing people together. That has since been shut down.
There's talk about an office for counter-radicalization. I want to talk about the difference between the two, because I think there are two spectrums in this piece: the radicalization of people and the overall umbrella where people of all faiths get together and have a discussion around what each one can do and how each one can support another.
Do you think there is value in looking at both of those pieces or do you think there's more value in just concentrating on counter-radicalization? From your knowledge and what you've been through, how should we approach this?
4:15 p.m.
Director of Policy, Centre for Israel and Jewish Affairs
I wish there was a silver bullet to this problem and that there was one measure that would take care of it.
4:15 p.m.
Conservative
4:15 p.m.
Director of Policy, Centre for Israel and Jewish Affairs
I think that's why this is so challenging, because it's so multi-faceted.
The Criminal Code alone is not going to solve the problem. Counter-radicalization efforts alone are not going to solve the problem. The activities of the former Office of Religious Freedom or the office that has come into being that's sort of subsumed its mandate isn't going to solve the problem alone, but these are all important pieces of the puzzle.
I can tell you that we opposed the dismantling of the Office of Religious Freedom at the time. We've been very pleased with the activities of what's come after, specifically in terms of its treatment of anti-Semitism. It recently formalized Canada's adoption of the International Holocaust Remembrance Alliance's definition of anti-Semitism as a matter of Canadian policy, which I know was an initiative of the previous government that continued under this government. I think the more we can do on the those types of things, the better.
