Evidence of meeting #53 for Public Safety and National Security in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was muslim.
A recording is available from Parliament.
February 13th, 2017 / 4:25 p.m.
Conservative
Larry Miller Conservative Bruce—Grey—Owen Sound, ON
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you to all of you for being here today.
Ms. Bullock, in your opening remarks, you spent quite a bit of time on Bill C-51, and I presume you realize that today is about the national security framework discussion. I just wanted to point that out.
Ms. Chowdhury, my time is limited, so I have a lot of yes-and-no questions. Can I ask you and your group whether you believe in sharia law?
Representative, Islamic Society of North America
Can you define sharia law for me?
Conservative
Larry Miller Conservative Bruce—Grey—Owen Sound, ON
Maybe you should define it for me. You read different things. You tell me.
The part of sharia law that I'm referring to and that you hear about is oppression of women like yourself, etc. In this day and age and in any country, I don't think that's good.
Representative, Islamic Society of North America
No, I don't believe in oppressing women.
Conservative
Larry Miller Conservative Bruce—Grey—Owen Sound, ON
Okay. Are there any other parts of it that you do agree with?
Representative, Islamic Society of North America
I believe it's my religious duty to pray five times a day. I believe in respecting others. I believe in fasting, challenging myself, and testing my willpower. To me, these are all components of sharia.
Conservative
Larry Miller Conservative Bruce—Grey—Owen Sound, ON
I don't think any member of any other religion would have a problem with that.
Where I'm going on this is radical Islam. Do you approve of it?
Representative, Islamic Society of North America
Again, could you define “radical Islam”?
Conservative
Larry Miller Conservative Bruce—Grey—Owen Sound, ON
I mean terrorist attacks, that part, radicalized.
Conservative
Larry Miller Conservative Bruce—Grey—Owen Sound, ON
Okay. Has your organization ever come out and condemned that kind of happening, no matter where it is?
Representative, Islamic Society of North America
Definitely, a number of times.
Conservative
Larry Miller Conservative Bruce—Grey—Owen Sound, ON
Okay. I'd be interested in seeing some of that.
The media have created this word “Islamophobia”, and nobody really knows what it means. If I were to come out and criticize radical Islam, meaning the terrorist component and the bad part of it, would I be considered Islamophobic because of that, in your view?
Representative, Islamic Society of North America
No, I don't think the expressed condemnations of any attacks on individuals would constitute Islamophobia, whether or not they were done by Muslims, but I think oftentimes the rhetoric around it could. It could say, “I condemn this attack because Muslims are known to be violent individuals courtesy of their faith.” I think that can lend itself to Islamophobia. Again, it's in the framing, as to your question about sharia. It's not black and white.
Conservative
Larry Miller Conservative Bruce—Grey—Owen Sound, ON
Okay.
I believe that it was Ms. Bullock who mentioned entrapment. I'm not sure of the exact context, but that almost made it sound as though it's the spies' fault. Police have to do a job today, and it doesn't matter in what component of society. As a taxpayer and a citizen, I have to hope that the police spend their resources, time, and whatever in the proper places because they suspect that something is going wrong there. Are you saying that there's a larger presence in mosques, say, than in other religious facilities? If there is, what's the reason for that?
Representative, Islamic Society of North America
Wouldn't it by definition be secret, so we wouldn't know?
Conservative
Larry Miller Conservative Bruce—Grey—Owen Sound, ON
Well, you seemed to talk, though, Ms. Bullock, as if it were quite prominent. You knew who was in there taking notes or whatever.
Conservative
Larry Miller Conservative Bruce—Grey—Owen Sound, ON
Those were your words, not mine, or maybe that was Ms. Chowdhury.
Representative, Islamic Society of North America
Well, we know with the whole Toronto 18 thing that there were at least two spies who were, in my opinion, leading the youth down the wrong path. They could have really turned that around.
Safiah has a story to narrate about her experience at Queen's.
Representative, Islamic Society of North America
Yes, Queen's is where I did my undergraduate university studies.
Conservative
Representative, Islamic Society of North America
Okay. It's about a number of times when there were events. The community at Queen's is small, and typically you know people. Oftentimes at events, particularly the ones around Muslims or national security, there would be one or two individuals no one recognized—we didn't know where they came from—who were scribbling away at notes. As a result, many of us felt fearful to talk.
We don't know who they were. They would never identify themselves.
Also, we would sometimes see these individuals in our prayer space and at our events, which were innocuous things such as breaking our fast or reading books. These individuals would be around, which then impacted our ability to feel safe and to feel free to speak our minds.
