Public Safety Committee on June 14th, 2017

[The Chair, Liberal, Rob Oliphant]

Using the prerogative of the chair, I'll ask a question with respect to article VI, paragraph 15 of the agreement:

The actions of officers under paragraphs 12 and 13 with respect to the search of a transgender person or a transsexual shall be performed in accordance with the policies of the Party performing the search.

Do we have legislation that accurately interprets that part of the agreement we have made, and are we being consistent with it? Obviously, the agreement was done in such a way that people who are transgender or transsexual would be respected by whichever party. Can we declare that our legislation is cognizant of paragraph 12 of article VI, and if so, why isn't it in the legislation as such?

[Jill Wherrett]

As CBSA has stated previously, they've outlined their policy in terms of searches, so this is consistent with that. That's consistent with the agreement. The U.S. approach is quite similar, so it is consistent. The practice we are following is consistent with what's in the agreement.

[The Chair, Liberal, Rob Oliphant]

In your opinion, then, this legislation enables that practice, which, as we think this committee wants, is consistent with the legislation the way it is worded.

[Jill Wherrett]

Yes.

[The Chair, Liberal, Rob Oliphant]

Okay.

Mr. Spengemann, go ahead.

[Sven Spengemann, Liberal, Mississauga—Lakeshore, ON]

Mr. Chair, I'll just briefly substantiate some of the questions and comments by my colleague, Ms. Damoff.

Maybe the simplest way to do it is to put the following question to you, Ms. Ali. Which term, “sex” or “gender”, would give a transgendered Canadian better legal protection at this time in history, under current jurisprudence? It's the jurisprudence that's important, not so much what the bill says, but how it is interpreted.

[Kristen Ali]

I can speak to some of the jurisprudence that exists. As I am aware, it does exist at the tribunal level with respect to searches. Again, I can speak to the practice with CBSA, where the language is “sex” in the Customs Act, but that's interpreted and applied in a manner to respect and recognize the rights and choices of transgendered individuals when a search is conducted.

[Sven Spengemann, Liberal, Mississauga—Lakeshore, ON]

Am I going beyond the purview of what you are able to comment on when I ask whether that same approach is taken under other statutory instruments?

[Kristen Ali]

A bit, unfortunately.... I couldn't speak beyond the CBSA context here.

[The Chair, Liberal, Rob Oliphant]

Is the committee ready to proceed on the amendment?

[Tony Clement, Conservative, Parry Sound—Muskoka, ON]

I request a recorded vote.

(Amendment negatived: nays 5; yeas 4 [See Minutes of Proceedings])

(Clause 26 agreed to)

[The Chair, Liberal, Rob Oliphant]

We now have LIB-7, which is about inserting what would be a new clause, clause 26.1.

Monsieur Picard, go ahead.

[Michel Picard, Liberal, Montarville, QC]

Mr. Chair, several witnesses expressed a fear of being unable to react to an inappropriate situation, an improper or simply unlawful action, and of being unable at least to report that situation.

Consequently, I propose that we add a clause to enable people to report to Canadian authorities any practice they deem inappropriate. Since the agreement provides for the two parties to meet to assess their border performance, this kind of information should be brought to our government's attention so that the necessary action can be taken and the necessary corrective measures introduced. So this is a measure-I would not call it a complaint hotline-that would enable people to make their voices heard regarding situations they consider inappropriate.

[The Chair, Liberal, Rob Oliphant]

Monsieur Di Iorio.

[Nicola Di Iorio, Liberal, Saint-Léonard—Saint-Michel, QC]

Travellers are already able to complain, as they see fit, about the way they have been treated. In this instance, however, that right is restricted by an amendment requiring that travellers complain in a particular manner. I do not understand how this increases their rights in any way. The English version reads, "may, in a prescribed manner".

Why would we require a traveller to file a complaint in a specific manner? Here we are telling travellers who wish to complain to their government about the way they have been treated that they may do so in only one way.

[The Chair, Liberal, Rob Oliphant]

Mr. Clement.

We'll get back to an answer, and we'll ask the officials.

[Tony Clement, Conservative, Parry Sound—Muskoka, ON]

I have a different.... I'm trying to find whether in the legislation “counsel” is defined. It's not in the definition section. I know that it is in the agreement, but I would note that “counsel” is not defined in the legislation.

[The Chair, Liberal, Rob Oliphant]

Okay.

We have two questions to deal with.

Monsieur Picard, you're the mover of the amendment, so the first would be the limitation on this being “in a prescribed manner,” en français,“selon les modalités réglementaires”, and also whether or not we should have a definition of “counsel”, which is referred to in the agreement, but is not named in the legislation.

[Michel Picard, Liberal, Montarville, QC]

I would simply point out that customs does not have an oversight agency. This option is being offered to enable people to file a report.

[The Chair, Liberal, Rob Oliphant]

Monsieur Di Iorio.

[Nicola Di Iorio, Liberal, Saint-Léonard—Saint-Michel, QC]

That does not answer my question. I want to know why travellers are being subjected to this way of doing things, that is "in a prescribed manner".

Travellers may not file a complaint if they do not do so in the manner required by the government.

[The Chair, Liberal, Rob Oliphant]

Monsieur Picard.

[Michel Picard, Liberal, Montarville, QC]

The bill is not designed to describe the way complaints and reports are managed from an administrative standpoint. It simply provides for the establishment of a system-whether it be a form, a telephone call or something else-enabling people to make their voices heard. People will not telephone senior officers in the departments. Instead a system will be set up to enable them to state their complaints and views. In that way, corrective action can be taken when the two parties meet periodically.

For the moment, this offsets the lack of customs oversight. As for the procedure, that will be governed by regulations that remain to be determined. At least we are opening the door to the possibility of establishing this procedure to enable people to file a report. In addition, as the example Mr. Clement cited earlier showed, a recourse will then be possible.

[The Chair, Liberal, Rob Oliphant]

I have Ms. Damoff and Monsieur Arseneault.

I'd also remind members that subamendments are appropriate. If anybody wanted to amend an amendment, that is also appropriate.

Ms. Damoff.

[Pam Damoff, Liberal, Oakville North—Burlington, ON]

I just wondered if we could suspend for a couple of minutes.