Public Safety Committee on Oct. 17th, 2017

[Grand Chief Abram Benedict]

Yes, absolutely.

[Matthew Dubé, NDP, Beloeil—Chambly, QC]

—of this legislation, it would probably be exacerbated.

[Grand Chief Abram Benedict]

Yes.

[Matthew Dubé, NDP, Beloeil—Chambly, QC]

To go back to solutions, then, do you have any specific solutions, or is the objective today to flag this as an issue for your community?

[Grand Chief Abram Benedict]

Today's main objective is to flag this as an issue. I think one of the solutions would be to engage with some of the responsible agencies, but there needs to be a commitment that the agencies will work with us to find solutions, because I know that the Customs Act really has nothing to do with the social benefits that the different agencies administer. There needs to be a commitment to find those solutions specifically for us.

[Matthew Dubé, NDP, Beloeil—Chambly, QC]

If I may ask you, what has been the outcome of some of this litigation, such as, for example, the benefits for the elders you mentioned?

[Grand Chief Abram Benedict]

For the elders, we didn't want to litigate. We ended up doing a judicial review because there was no response from the internal review process. Then, with all the letters at the time—this was eight years ago—there was no response from the minister, so we had to engage in the legal process. Since then, we now have a final agreement on these issues, but it still continues to be a struggle, because that only includes the benefits for elders. As well, there are the benefits for low-income families that we have to deal with in Quebec and Ontario.

[Matthew Dubé, NDP, Beloeil—Chambly, QC]

We talk a lot about how this program works with regard to provincial governments. We're told there's no information sharing, but nonetheless there are certain things that line up, for example, when it comes to where you work and things like that. Has there ever been a domino effect in that regard?

[Grand Chief Abram Benedict]

Yes, absolutely. The State of New York passed legislation about 20 years ago recognizing that Akwesasne is one community with respect to education, so children who live in Akwesasne can attend a New York state school without having to pay any tuition or worrying about where they live.

In some of these reviews, what happens is that if it's a mother being reviewed for her child tax credits and her child actually attends a New York state school, the State of New York recognizes that, but again ,when you go to a review, you see that the mother lives in Ontario and has a child's school records from a New York state school. As well, sometimes in those cases the child actually may have been born in a New York hospital. When you take all this documentation and put it to a reviewer in one of the systems, it looks like they're not entitled, right? Also, that's for one person. Remember: there are 12,500 Mohawks on every side of the border here.

[Matthew Dubé, NDP, Beloeil—Chambly, QC]

Despite your efforts, this remains an issue even before—

[Grand Chief Abram Benedict]

It continues to be. We continue to work with the government and respective agencies to find solutions, but it's not always easy. It's like calling a 1-800 number and getting “press three, press four” and then waiting four hours.

[Matthew Dubé, NDP, Beloeil—Chambly, QC]

We all know what that's like.

[Grand Chief Abram Benedict]

That's a bit extreme, but that's the reality of trying to get some of these things issued. I know that when you talk to somebody and give them these factors, they can't understand it.

[Matthew Dubé, NDP, Beloeil—Chambly, QC]

I appreciate that. Thanks very much.

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

Thank you, Grand Chief.

Mr. Fragiskatos.

[Peter Fragiskatos, Liberal, London North Centre, ON]

Thank you very much.

We heard just a few minutes ago about how Amber Alerts—I'll use that example—can be a benefit to your community. I want to continue asking about Bill C-21 in general terms. We've heard a great deal about concerns related to port-of-entry issues. I don't dismiss those concerns for a moment, but I do want to get to a broader focus on Bill C-21.

You've touched on some issues. Do you have any other concerns about the bill?

[Grand Chief Abram Benedict]

Other than the information sharing, I think the principles of Bill C-21 are there. It's more about the implementation and the reality of the impacts that are going to happen.

[Peter Fragiskatos, Liberal, London North Centre, ON]

Can you expand on the principles of Bill C-21 or their meaning?

[Grand Chief Abram Benedict]

I think the information sharing, the Amber Alerts, and ensuring that people who are perhaps a threat to either Canada or the United States are absolutely important. There is reason to share this information, but I'm concerned about the residue effect that sometimes has.

[Peter Fragiskatos, Liberal, London North Centre, ON]

Do you have concerns about establishing residency in one country or another?

[Grand Chief Abram Benedict]

Well, the Mohawks existed prior to any residence requirements. In fact, we're a nation inside a nation. Absolutely I have concerns about that, because it's the Mohawk nation and it existed prior to any of those lines being drawn anywhere.

[Peter Fragiskatos, Liberal, London North Centre, ON]

Is there anything else that you think the committee should know about Bill C-21as a whole?

[Grand Chief Abram Benedict]

No, I think those are the main areas. If you want to talk about the Customs Act, we could go on for hours.

[Peter Fragiskatos, Liberal, London North Centre, ON]

I want to focus on Bill C-21. Thank you.

[Voices]

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