Public Safety Committee on July 23rd, 2020

[Kamal Khera, Liberal, Brampton West, ON]

Thank you, everyone, for joining us and for your testimonies.

Perhaps I'll start with Chief Teegee. I was reading one of your interviews. You've stated—and rightfully so—that if it was up to you, there needs to be a systemic overhaul of the policing system, whether it is the RCMP or municipal police. I agree. I think the numbers, the stories and your testimony speak for themselves, whether it is the incarceration of indigenous, Black and racialized Canadians in prison or the use of force, including fatal force, within policing. Those are exactly the issues we're looking at as we navigate this study.

From your view, what issues do you see as the most pressing in addressing systemic racism? What specific measures need to be taken? Can you perhaps elaborate on what should be the first thing that needs to be addressed and prioritized?

I'll look to you, Chief Teegee, and then I'll perhaps get the others to also comment briefly.

Thank you.

[Vice-Chief Terry Teegee]

Thank you for that question.

At this moment, what we really need to change, in terms of the overhaul for policing, is in large municipalities. It is the help that many of the social organizations need. A good example, if you look at Winnipeg, is the poor side of town. In Vancouver, it's Downtown Eastside. Many of those places need the social help for homelessness. They need the help for addictions and mental health. In terms of policing, many police forces—whether municipal or the RCMP—are not trained to deal with those situations and they are not trained to do wellness checks.

Right now, when we're talking about an overhaul of the policing system, there certainly needs to be change in terms of that relationship with first nations people. We need systemic changes where there's really a recognition that not only the laws of colonial Canada, but also the laws of indigenous peoples and the laws of our people need to be upheld. Implementation of the United Nations Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples needs to be within policies such as the RCMP Act or the police act. I think that can be changed right away. The minimum sentencing can be changed by Minister Lametti.

I think those things can be changed right now, but systemic change and the overhaul.... I think perhaps that's going to be a long journey. Certainly, we need to be looking at other organizations and other first nations, Inuit and Métis for their inclusion and their views on that as well.

Thank you.

[Kamal Khera, Liberal, Brampton West, ON]

Thank you.

President Obed, would you like to comment?

[Natan Obed]

Very quickly, I think what we're seeing is policing through stereotypes. Without a relationship between the RCMP and the community, Inuit aren't seen as people, but we're seen through all the negative lenses that perhaps general Canadian society thinks of when they think of Inuit and what it's like to police Inuit, but really, the RCMP are there to work with the community on a shared set of orders and controls that are a part of our society, not necessarily a part of the RCMP doing something or not doing something.

What we see is the outcome, which is overpolicing and under-policing, with excessive force being used. Then also, when murdered and missing indigenous women and girls issues are handled by the RCMP, we see a complete under-policing when it comes to ensuring that women are kept safe and that the files, once they are opened, are handled appropriately over time.

These things happen because we just don't have a relationship and we don't also have Inuit-specific control over policing in our communities. Those are the things that need to change.

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

You have approximately a minute left.

[Kamal Khera, Liberal, Brampton West, ON]

Thank you.

My next question is actually for Ms. Kotierk.

You've also mentioned in an interview, I think just recently, that leaders in Nunavut have requested that the Civilian Review and Complaints Commission for the RCMP conduct a full systemic review of policing in the territory after, I believe, it was 30 cases that have emerged involving allegations of police brutality and misconduct. I know these allegations are coming from Inuit women who have complained about the RCMP response to domestic violence and sexual assault calls, as well as the treatment in jail cells.

Can you tell us briefly about the situation and perhaps update us on the status of the request and the review?

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

That's a very important question, and regrettably, she's left you about 15 seconds to answer it, but could you take a stab at it, please?

[Aluki Kotierk]

Very briefly, I will just comment that the Government of Nunavut has indicated that they are looking at an oversight model, which is encouraging. As well, and what is not so encouraging, is that the Minister of Justice for the Government of Nunavut has indicated that there isn't systemic racism in Nunavut, and I disagree with that. It's very interesting to see the mixed messages coming from the Government of Nunavut, and we will see what that results in.

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

Thank you.

I'm not sure what happened there, but I appear to be staring at a blank screen. On the assumption that I'm the only one staring at a blank screen, I'm going to ask Madam Michaud for her next six minutes, please.

[Kristina Michaud, Bloc, Avignon—La Mitis—Matane—Matapédia, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

My thanks to the witnesses for their testimony.

Figures show us that few people from indigenous and Inuit communities are in police services. So one solution would be to ensure that there are more. You touched on that a little, Mr. Obed. The Royal Canadian Mounted Police (RCMP) in particular has put in place initiatives, such as the Inuit cadet development program, for young high school graduates who would like to pursue a career in policing.

However, there seems to be some sort of prejudice that indigenous or Inuit youth would, in a way, be betraying their community by joining the police because of the colonial history of policing. That is what we have heard from the communities themselves.

Is that something you see in the community? Does it hamper people's willingness to become involved in police work?

[Natan Obed]

I'll just give some clarity on the statistics as we know them.

As of September 2019, three out of 131 RCMP regular officers in Nunavut were Inuit. At the same time, only three officers in Nunavik out of 70 were Inuit as well—we don't have the data for the other two regions—which just shows you how few Inuit are in the RCMP.

As somebody who has known many friends who have thought of being RCMP officers or who were RCMP officers at one time, I know that it's really challenging to police your own community, especially considering the foundation of the rules that are set out for you to follow. Also, the real challenge is in relation to an itinerant workforce. The RCMP is structured so that people move around. If you're somebody who is from a certain community in one of our regions, it's not a lifestyle that many Inuit want to pursue, especially if they want to stay in their home communities.

There are a number of very clear barriers that are in place to ensure that there is a larger police workforce. Absolutely, it is very challenging for Inuit to be RCMP officers in their home communities or across Inuit Nunangat. There are a lot of challenges to that. I'm very sympathetic to those who are trying and who have succeeded to be RCMP officers serving their people.

[Kristina Michaud, Bloc, Avignon—La Mitis—Matane—Matapédia, QC]

Thank you.

I understand from your comments that there are many obstacles. There is a lack of trust in the communities towards RCMP officers. What could be done, in concrete terms, to encourage people to join? That might be a solution.

[Natan Obed]

I apologize. If that was a follow-up question for me directly, I didn't hear the interpretation of it.

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

Yes, I think you're correct. I didn't hear the interpretation as well.

Madame Michaud, could you...?

[Kristina Michaud, Bloc, Avignon—La Mitis—Matane—Matapédia, QC]

But I have the French channel on. Is it working now?

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

Okay, it's working now.

Repeat the question, please.

[Kristina Michaud, Bloc, Avignon—La Mitis—Matane—Matapédia, QC]

Mr. Obed, you say there are a lot of obstacles preventing young people from joining, that it's difficult for them to do so. We are talking about a general lack of trust in the communities towards RCMP officers or police services.

What could be done, in concrete terms, to remove these barriers and facilitate the process?

[Natan Obed]

I'm referring back to the first recommendation that I put forward: A thorough review, an independent review, a review that also holds Inuit governance and Inuit as central to policing in Inuit Nunangat would be a great place to start. There could be an explicit consideration of the human resources aspect of this, but also a fundamental review of the relationship that we need to have. The connection between the RCMP and the community needs to transform. As it transforms, I think more Inuit would see a future not only as RCMP officers but also in working in administrative jobs and other [Technical difficulty—Editor].

[Kristina Michaud, Bloc, Avignon—La Mitis—Matane—Matapédia, QC]

Thank you very much.

You also talked about officers who use body cameras. Minister Blair has shown some openness to the idea of making them more accessible to communities. Do you think that would be a good thing? How could the information be made accessible to the communities?

[Natan Obed]

President Kotierk, do you want to take this?

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

Madame Kotierk, go ahead.

[Aluki Kotierk]

Is this for me?

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

Yes.

[Aluki Kotierk]

I know that in Nunavik, in northern Quebec, the police force currently uses body cameras. It's something that's been called for in Nunavut as something that could be used as a tool. I think it would be very helpful. I don't think it's the only way to make things better between the RCMP and the Inuit. In fact, I just want to point out that Nunavut is quite unique among all other jurisdictions in that it's the only jurisdiction that has an indigenous majority population that speaks a first language that is neither of the two official languages of Canada. That makes it extremely important that the police officers and the employees of these police officers are able to understand Inuit culture and are able to understand Inuktitut.

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

Thank you.