Public Safety Committee on July 23rd, 2020

[Vice-Chief Terry Teegee]

I think that the goal is really to assert our first nations rights within the United Nations Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples, our sovereignty and self-determination, in terms of our view of...I suppose the colonial word is “policing”. For first nations, it's more towards upholding what we see as the laws from the big house or from the potlatch house.

[Natan Obed]

In each of the four Inuit Nunangat regions there will be different paths forward in self-determination and policing. Some of our land claim agreements have self-government appendages that allow for Inuit to provide policing directly and some don't, but definitely we need to have the right to have these conversations and the ability to be at the table. We'll get away from saying that the RCMP must do this or the RCMP must do that, or Canada must do this or that, and get towards the place where our rights are upheld and our self-determination leads when it comes to policing.

[Gary Anandasangaree, Liberal, Scarborough—Rouge Park, ON]

I believe that's my time.

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

You still have 45 seconds left.

[Gary Anandasangaree, Liberal, Scarborough—Rouge Park, ON]

President Kotierk, are you able to comment on this as well?

[Aluki Kotierk]

Similar to what I said in terms of the 25 communities in Nunavut, I think there's an opportunity to have the force work with our communities and employ people, whether they're officers or not, similar to the way in which we had special constables. I think that would help enrich the relationship and garner more trust between Nunavut Inuit and the RCMP.

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

Thank you, Mr. Anandasangaree.

Mr. Uppal, you have three minutes, please.

[Tim Uppal, Conservative, Edmonton Mill Woods, AB]

Thank you.

What more can we do to attract more indigenous communities to the police forces themselves, whether it's self-determined police forces or the RCMP?

[Natan Obed]

Perhaps I'll start.

As the RCMP is an extension of the federal government, in many cases all the different human resource requirements and the training become barriers for Inuit to become RCMP officers or to work within the RCMP administrative structure itself.

Our language, Inuktitut, is not valued within any of the human resource skill sets that are required or valued within the RCMP. Also, our skill sets beyond language and a closeness to our communities have really no bearing on any of the training, the recruitment and retention, or the ability to succeed as an officer, other than in the stark day-to-day realities of an Inuk being an RCMP officer in an Inuit community. It matters, but it doesn't necessarily matter in any human resource context.

That needs to change. We need to reform the way in which we think about those people who are suitable to be RCMP officers in our communities.

[Vice-Chief Terry Teegee]

Overall, just in general, we need our own police forces. There's one that exists here in British Columbia, and there are many others in Ontario and other provinces.

In terms of involvement and retention within the RCMP, there's a pending class action lawsuit in regard to racist and sexist acts in terms of the treatment of not only indigenous women but just of indigenous people. I think that is really indicative of the organization itself, so in terms of retention, that definitely needs to change to deal with the racism that exists within the RCMP.

Also, more often that not, in terms of the ability of first nations people to get through testing and just get involved within the RCMP, there are always barriers, and that's really why I see there's sometimes some struggle to get first nations people in the RCMP.

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

Thank you, Mr. Uppal.

Madam Damoff, you have three minutes.

[Pam Damoff, Liberal, Oakville North—Burlington, ON]

Thank you, Chair.

Thank you to all the witnesses. I want to acknowledge that I am on the unceded territory of the Algonquin people today.

President Obed, I first want to thank you for your always thoughtful testimony. You're very knowledgeable but also very thoughtful in the way that you present.

We're reviewing first nations policing, and I'm wondering what your thoughts are on expanding that to include Inuit. Right now there's no agreement with Nunavut for their own police services. Rather than relying on the RCMP, you would be looking at your own police service. I'm wondering what your thoughts are on that.

[Natan Obed]

I don't have any specific position, as in ITK we haven't considered the issue within our board structure. I would like to pass it to President Kotierk for that. I would say, however, yes, absolutely; in a distinctions-based way, there needs to be a consideration of Inuit policing at the larger federal levels and there need to be reforms in the way in which policing happens in those communities.

[Aluki Kotierk]

Qujannamiik, Natan.

We know that the current way in which policing is delivered is not working. The excessive force and the number of Inuit who are dying at the hands of the RCMP is of concern. I think any consideration for us to look at how things can be done differently would be very useful.

Qujannamiik.

[Pam Damoff, Liberal, Oakville North—Burlington, ON]

My next question is for you, Chief Teegee. One of the concerns I have as we're looking at a new model is training. Training officers in the old way will not present new results. I'm wondering what your thoughts are in terms of training for first nations policing and whether there should be a separate indigenous police training academy.

[Vice-Chief Terry Teegee]

I don't know if it should be separate. It depends on the situation, with perhaps it could be separate if there is training needed to go into really remote and rural areas, but I think overall what we're seeing is that the incarceration and deaths of first nations, Inuit and Métis people are in urban areas. Those are the officers who really need training for mental health and addictions, and also perhaps training from an indigenous point of view to really have some empathy toward indigenous people, to understand our lived life and what we have been experiencing since colonization.

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

Thank you.

Madam Damoff, as per the motion, there are still....

I want to beg the forgiveness of our staff, but we are going to stretch it another three minutes. We'll give a minute and a half to Madame Michaud and a minute and a half to Madam Qaqqaq.

Go ahead, Madame Michaud.

[Kristina Michaud, Bloc, Avignon—La Mitis—Matane—Matapédia, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

When I hear testimony such as the one about a man who was handcuffed and shot, it seems clear to me that the RCMP or its officers are not applying the incident management intervention model, which states that the use of force must be commensurate with the individual's level of resistance. We know that use of force reports are completed. In other words, paperwork is filled out after those types of situations. Then it seems that nothing else is done.

Chief Teegee, could you comment on the follow-up that should be done within the police services themselves to ensure that these extreme situations do not happen again. One of the things you talked about was accountability.

[Vice-Chief Terry Teegee]

Really importantly, there needs to be an independent review, a truly independent review, not necessarily police reviewing police but a civilian review that looks at the actions of many police officers. Just in general, I suppose the training needs to be reviewed as well in terms of how they approach certain situations that involve addictions and perhaps mental health.

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

Thank you, Madame Michaud.

Go ahead, Madam Qaqqaq.

[Mumilaaq Qaqqaq, NDP, Nunavut, NU]

Matna. Thank you, Chair, and a quick shout-out to you. You've been doing great with time today. I really appreciate it.

For context, as well, for the rest of the committee, when we're talking about Nunavut, we're talking about a population that is just a bit bigger than Charlottetown, P.E.I. I want to put that into context, especially when we're talking about numbers.

We know that since 2010 in Nunavut, the rate of police-related deaths is 14.35 times that of Ontario. We know that suicide is nine times the rate. We know that women in the north experience violence at three times the rate of the rest of Canada.

My question is for President Kotierk.

We saw in June that this government has delayed their timeline in response to murdered and missing indigenous women and girls. What do you think that says about the relationship the federal government has to Inuit and majority Inuit communities, and what does that say about the value in that relationship and the value of Inuit lives?

[Aluki Kotierk]

Matna.

I think it signals very publicly the message that it's not a priority, despite the very public inquiry and the platitudes of how important it is and how the relationship with indigenous peoples is more important than other relationships.

I liken it to a recent document that I read here in Nunavut, where similarly the RCMP are called by Inuit women because they're seeking assistance in a violent situation and the RCMP do not show up. It feels in that sort of vein, that all the information is now publicly available, and yet it's not important enough to action it.

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

With that, we're going to have to bring this session to a close.

I want to thank the members and the witnesses for their indulgence with respect to the incompetence of the chair. My poor colleagues on the committee will be exposed to more incompetence over the course of time.

President Obed, President Kotierk, Chief Teegee, you have launched this inquiry very well, and on behalf of the committee, I want to thank you for your efforts to be here and to articulate your views.

I'm told that I have to say we are suspended. I'm assuming we do not leave virtually but we wait online while we reconfigure for the next set of witnesses.

With that, we are suspended. Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

We have our next set of witnesses. I note that the time is 12:20, so we'll go until 1:20 and put in the full hour.

We have with us Senator White. We have Mr. Wright and Mr. Benson Cowan.

Since there's no particular order, unless there's been some agreement that I don't know about, I'm going to go in the order you are listed on the witness list.

We have Senator White for seven minutes.

[Vernon White, Senator, Ontario]

Thank you very much, and good afternoon.

I want to thank you for inviting me to the Standing Committee on Public Safety and National Security, which is studying systemic racism in policing in Canada.

If I may, I'll introduce myself, which will help members better focus their questions.

I spent almost 25 years in the Royal Canadian Mounted Police working in Newfoundland and Labrador, the Northwest Territories, Nunavut, Yukon, Nova Scotia, and here in Ottawa at headquarters. Of my almost 25 years, I spent 19 years in the north, spread across the three territories and northen Labrador. I left the RCMP as an assistant—