Public Safety Committee on March 24th, 2021

[Tako Van Popta, Conservative, Langley—Aldergrove, BC]

We'll see next year.

So—

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

Mr. Van Popta, you only 10 seconds, unfortunately.

[Tako Van Popta, Conservative, Langley—Aldergrove, BC]

I was going to re-ask the question that Ms. Michaud did not get an answer to, regarding smuggling firearms.

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

She's going to get another shot in about two minutes.

Mr. Lightbound, you have four minutes.

[Joël Lightbound, Liberal, Louis-Hébert, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I want to echo what my fellow member Ms. Damoff said about the culture in the RCMP, so my questions are for Ms. Lucki.

The committee has heard from a number of witnesses, including Justice Bastarache, about the deep-rooted cultural issues within the RCMP, whether it be systemic racism, harassment or sexism.

Ms. Lucki, I'm encouraged to see that you are willing to undertake the necessary institutional reforms. You accept 16 of the recommendations set out by the Civilian Review and Complaints Commission for the RCMP in its report, further to the RCMP's investigation into the death of Colten Boushie.

When you were answering my fellow member's question, I was also encouraged to hear you talk about the Vision150 plan and the equity, diversity and inclusion strategy you intend to implement.

Strategies are nice, but you really have to be able to measure their impact and success.

What tools will you be using to measure the RCMP's progress or lack of progress?

[Commr Brenda Lucki]

Thank you for your question.

We have a number of ways to measure our progress.

First, as a note, all of our initiatives are on the outside website, the RCMP Vision150 tracker, and we have milestones for each and every one of those initiatives. You can see how far we are going along with them.

Holistically, the markers are going to be a more inclusive, more open and less discriminatory organization that is more transparent and accountable in the bigger sense. We are collaborating a lot with our management advisory board with regard to the actual measures.

One specific thing includes an audit committee doing a specific audit on Vision150. There is a management action plan with specific measurements of completion. Hopefully, we will have everything measured with our success. I guess the biggest measure of success will be that the next commissioner won't have to answer this question at committee.

[Joël Lightbound, Liberal, Louis-Hébert, QC]

I really like that last thing you said. Believe me, we hope so too.

I have one last quick question.

As the RCMP embarks on a cultural change, the RCMP External Review Committee has a backlog of 300 files. The RCMP External Review Committee received additional funding this past year.

Ms. Lucki, has the number of files awaiting review by the RCMP External Review Committee decreased now that more staff have been hired?

[Commr Brenda Lucki]

That's a great question, but I think, if I can correct you, you might be referring to the Civilian Review and Complaints Commission. It's where most of the backlog is.

We have committed, under my direction and my leadership.... We have the first ever MOU with the CRCC with certain specific service standards, which is six months. We currently have reduced the backlog to 120 files, and we are committed to eliminating that backlog by the end of the year.

In the meantime, every single file that comes in as of April 1 will be meeting the six-month service standard. It is so important that Canadians get a timely response. It's not easy to come forward, in the first place, to make a complaint, and then if they have to wait years for a response, that's unacceptable.

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

Thank you, Mr. Lightbound.

Ms. Michaud, you may go ahead. You have two minutes.

[Kristina Michaud, Bloc, Avignon—La Mitis—Matane—Matapédia, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I'm going to follow up on the question I asked Mr. Ossowski about firearms smuggling and trafficking.

Earlier, the minister said that Bill C-21 would help combat the scourge.

Have you received any information from the minister's office about that? Have you put together a plan?

Earlier, you said you didn't necessarily need more staff. How do you intend to combat the scourge?

[John Ossowski]

Thank you for the question.

I think what the minister was alluding to was that, starting in budget 2018-19, the agency received $80 million over five years and about $7 million ongoing. There are five activity areas, as you alluded to. One of them is an infrastructure project for the detector dogs, for which we're amping up our capacity.

What's new, since the new administration to the south and what the minister was talking about, is the cross-border task force on firearms. We're working with our Public Safety colleagues in the cross-border crime forum to coordinate activities, to share intelligence and to look at those flows and augment our ability to intercept firearms at the border.

[Kristina Michaud, Bloc, Avignon—La Mitis—Matane—Matapédia, QC]

If I understand correctly, you are working on it, but nothing is in place yet.

Do you know when that will happen?

[John Ossowski]

We've already started, in terms of working on an information-sharing agreement with the alcohol, tobacco and firearms agency. Since this announcement, which was literally within the past few weeks, we've already reached out and started to work with our colleagues to the south and here in Canada to coordinate how we would actually take advantage of this opportunity.

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

Thank you, Ms. Michaud.

Mr. Harris, you have two minutes.

[Jack Harris, NDP, St. John's East, NL]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I'm going to follow up on some of the questions with Commissioner Lucki regarding oversight.

There's been a concern that the public is not aware of much of what's going on and that there's a need for greater transparency. We know that the CRCC is underfunded, according to the complaints commissioner. You have indicated some effort is being made by you to look after the backlog, which is commendable, but there's another issue in terms of transparency.

Last November the Information Commissioner said that the RCMP was neglectful and that 92% of ATIP requests went beyond the statutory due date, and called it a “critical” level.

What's being done to resolve that? That's a pretty important statutory obligation as well. People have the right to information. It's part of the Information Commissioner's job to ensure that happens. What are you doing about that? Is there a need for further resources for that, or is this something that you're not taking seriously?

[Commr Brenda Lucki]

Thank you for that question. That's a great question.

I have to say that we haven't done Canadians justice in our ATIP program whatsoever. We have an extreme backlog, and we are working with Treasury Board, through a ministerial directive, to come up.... We are presenting a strategy to the minister in the next month and a half.

We have received funding to hire additional resources, and we have changed a bit of our triage process. I've been in a conversation with the Privacy Commissioner twice now. Actually, she's complimented us on our progress week over week, since we put our mind to the matter.

It's a perfect example, Mr. Harris, that the things you measure get done. We have to get better at that, and we will. I am completely committed to better transparency for Canadians.

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

Thank you, Mr. Harris.

Mr. Kurek, you have four minutes, please.

[Damien Kurek, Conservative, Battle River—Crowfoot, AB]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

I'm glad to get the opportunity to ask a few more questions.

To the CBSA, I've heard a number of stories from constituents about challenges related to being deported because of paperwork or not being able to get relevant information because of the limitations of government in the midst of the pandemic. I understand about 12,000 people were deported over the course of the pandemic.

Is there a ratio as to how many were deported for public safety reasons versus how many were deported for not having the proper applications, delays in paperwork processing and that sort of thing?

[John Ossowski]

So far for this fiscal year about 11,000 people have been removed from the country. I think it's important to understand that anyone who's removed has to have exhausted all of the due process available to them. In the case of somebody from an immigration side, we would support the minister in terms of hearings before the Immigration and Refugee Board. Once they've exhausted all their avenues of appeal, then we would start the removal process. Obviously removals are very slow right now because of airlines and the lack of capacity to travel.

In terms of people with serious inadmissibility, of those close to 11,000 removals, about 350 or so I think are serious inadmissibilities. These could be any number of different criminal offences or danger assessments that have been made and subsequently removed.

A final point on this is that, as soon as somebody is deemed to need to be removed, we are required by law to remove them as soon as possible.

[Damien Kurek, Conservative, Battle River—Crowfoot, AB]

Has a mechanism been put in place to ensure, for those who might fall through the cracks, especially because of challenges in processing paperwork in the midst of the pandemic, both in Canada and other jurisdictions, that there is fair and due process?

[John Ossowski]

Absolutely. As I mentioned, the Immigration and Refugee Board is the agency responsible. It's a quasi-judicial tribunal that makes those assessments.

[Damien Kurek, Conservative, Battle River—Crowfoot, AB]

Okay. Thank you for that.

Could you enlighten me on what the total backlog is for deportations of individuals who are deemed to be significant public safety or national security threats?

[John Ossowski]

There's not much of a backlog. Obviously it is a dynamic kind of thing, with people coming in and then leaving. It varies, but we endeavour to remove people as quickly as possible. If they were a danger to the public, then we would detain them.

[Damien Kurek, Conservative, Battle River—Crowfoot, AB]

Thank you for that.

There is no specific number that you have that is a backlog specifically due to the pandemic, just to clarify.

[John Ossowski]

I can get you that information.