Public Safety Committee on March 24th, 2021

[Bill Blair, Liberal, Scarborough Southwest, ON]

It's broken down in the data, and that's why I asked whether the president could provide and confirm an answer with respect to what it represents.

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

You have about 30 seconds, Mr. Harris.

[Jack Harris, NDP, St. John's East, NL]

In the 30 seconds, I guess, we might have had an answer, if the minister had one for us.

I don't mean to insult you, sir, but I expected you to be able to tell us whether it was new money or not.

[Bill Blair, Liberal, Scarborough Southwest, ON]

Jack, I'm not insulted by your question.

[Jack Harris, NDP, St. John's East, NL]

I think that uses up my time, Chair.

Thank you for saying that, sir.

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

I found, in my relationship with the minister, that it's very difficult to insult him.

We now move to the five-minute round. We'll hear from Mr. Van Popta, Madam Lambropoulos, Madam Michaud, Mr. Harris, Mr. Kurek and Mr. Iacono.

Mr. Van Popta.

[Tako Van Popta, Conservative, Langley—Aldergrove, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Good evening, Minister Blair. It's good to see you here.

I have a question about Canada's other pandemic: fentanyl and the opioid overdose crisis across the country, and certainly here in my home jurisdiction of metro Vancouver. We don't see any real plans for combatting the real problem, and that is the illegal importation of fentanyl into our country.

That's a CBSA question. What are the plans around this, sir?

[Bill Blair, Liberal, Scarborough Southwest, ON]

Thank you. It is a terribly important question, and we have seen an unacceptable increase this year. The numbers were already tragic and unacceptable, and they have gotten worse in this year of the pandemic.

I agree with you, sir. Actually, I spent a fair portion of my life, prior to coming to Ottawa, dealing with transnational organized drug crime, and I'm well aware.

This is not just an issue, by the way, for CBSA, but there are a number of very significant steps taken with CBSA to increase their capacity, not just in people but also in the use of new technologies and new authorities.

For example, one way in which we saw fentanyl was being too frequently imported illegally into this country was through the mail system. We brought forward additional, new measures and controls over that method of importation so that the CBSA can deal with it effectively. In addition [Technical difficulty—Editor] and those are transnational in nature.

That is the responsibility of the RCMP, and it's why I hope you see reflected in the estimates that we've provided a significant additional investment in the federal policing role of the RCMP. It's that federal policing capacity, which deals with organized crime, drug smuggling and money laundering, that is so important in dealing with this.

Finally, if I may conclude, I've also had conversations today with the executive of the Canadian Association of Chiefs of Police, who expressed very similar concerns but also want to see the government move forward on responding to their plea that this be dealt with more as a public health crisis.

The interdiction of the supply of fentanyl and precursor chemicals, illicit opioids, into this country remains a very significant focus for this government and our agencies, but we're also introducing harm reduction measures so that we can keep people safe. I think the combination of those two things is really important.

[Tako Van Popta, Conservative, Langley—Aldergrove, BC]

I understand there are many tools available to fight a problem like this, but this problem has been with us for many years. It's not just in the last year. However, things seem to be going in the wrong direction.

I want to focus, again, on the illegal importation. Where are these drugs coming from? Why can Canada not solve this problem? Why can we not get these harmful, illegal drugs that are killing so many people off our streets?

[Bill Blair, Liberal, Scarborough Southwest, ON]

Thank you very much.

The interdiction of the chemicals used in their production and for dangerous drugs like fentanyl and other drugs is often part of it. It's a transnational organized crime activity. We know, and I've said this publicly previously, that many of the chemicals used in the manufacture of these drugs, and many of these drugs, come from other places in the world, primarily Southeast Asia. I have very close relationships with UNODC, the United Nations Office on Drugs and Crime, which is very much overseeing investigations in all parts of the world.

The RCMP is known internationally as leaders in those investigations. We participate with our Five Eyes partners and with other international organizations to interdict the supply. It remains a significant challenge, not just for Canada but around the world. That's why it's also important, notwithstanding our best efforts at supply interdiction, that we also work to reduce the demand for these drugs. For those who are using these drugs problematically, we also have to ensure that we implement strong harm reduction measures based on public health to keep people alive.

As you say, there are many tools, but I want to assure you that's why we're investing significantly in enhancing the federal policing capacity.

Mr. Van Popta, I'm not sure whether you're aware of this, but in 2013 an enormous amount of funding and resources and staffing were removed from the RCMP, and this had a very deleterious effect on their federal policing capacity. We've been working tirelessly over the past five years to rebuild that capacity, because Canadians depend on the RCMP in their federal policing role to deal with that very problem of the transnational organized crime responsible for importing drugs.

[Tako Van Popta, Conservative, Langley—Aldergrove, BC]

I understand, sir.

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

You have about 15 seconds, unfortunately.

[Tako Van Popta, Conservative, Langley—Aldergrove, BC]

Unfortunately, things seem to have been going in the wrong direction over the past five years that this government has been in office.

My time is up. Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

Madam Lambropoulos.

[Emmanuella Lambropoulos, Liberal, Saint-Laurent, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, Minister Blair, for being here, and to all the officials who are here to help answer our questions today.

A couple of issues that are of concern to me have already briefly been touched on, but I would like a little more detail with regard to them. Many of the members of the Saint-Laurent community, which I'm a part of and which I represent, are quite concerned about gun violence. It's been on the rise. In my province of Quebec, gender-based violence as well has been on the rise. In the last seven weeks, I believe, seven women have been murdered at the hands of their partners.

Specifically with regard to gender-based violence, I know you spoke about working with the minister to ensure that women get the protection they need. A lot of women are turned away from shelters because there are not enough spaces, and I know that's not necessarily your domain. However, I'd like to know what kind of work you guys are doing together in order to help make women safer.

[Bill Blair, Liberal, Scarborough Southwest, ON]

Thank you very much. It is a critically important question.

The Minister for Women and Gender Equality, Minister Monsef, and I are responsible for bringing forward the national strategy. We've been working on a number of different elements, and there are very significant components of this. However, you're absolutely right. I think it's important to acknowledge the organizations that provide shelter and support to women fleeing domestic violence, giving them and their families a safe place to go.

We've actually, just in this pandemic year, expended over $100 million to support those organizations and to create that safe space for women who are fleeing domestic violence. We also are looking at a number of different legislative responses with respect to online harms, which can include gender-based violence and hatred. We're also, as I mentioned earlier, bringing forward firearms legislation. Let me just speak about that for the moment, if I may.

Every five days, a woman is killed in this country in a domestic violence incident. Over 500 times a year, they are victimized with firearms. We know that the presence of a firearm in a home that is experiencing gender-based and domestic violence.... That's a dangerous situation made deadly by the presence of a firearm, so we're bringing forward new tools. I've been meeting with organizations across the country. Many of them are very concerned about how they could implement those new measures. They see them as valuable and important, but they're going to need support. That's another commitment that we've made: that we'll provide them with the financial and other supports that they're going to need to make this effective to keep people safe.

The one thing I can say, if I may.... You know, I've had a conversation just in your area. I recently had a conversation with both Deputy Chief Carbonneau and Chief Caron of the SPVM to talk about what they're doing with respect to gun violence in their community, including gender-based violence, and the supports that they need. We talked about some of the money that we've made available through the Province of Quebec for municipal police services in doing their work.

We also talked about our commitment to bring forward $250 million over the next five years to invest in communities, to invest in those circumstances that give rise to gun violence in all of our communities right across the country, and that investment will be in those community organizations that do extraordinary work. I'll be looking for assistance and guidance from members of Parliament from all parties, right across this country, to make sure that we make those investments with the best effect of keeping people safe.

[Emmanuella Lambropoulos, Liberal, Saint-Laurent, QC]

Thank you very much. I really appreciate that. I'd love to get a call from you so that I can help in that regard.

Another question I have is related to stricter gun laws. Of course, we've announced that's part of the plan and we're moving ahead with this. A lot of illegal guns are brought in from the border. I know that other people have touched on this as well.

What do you have as a plan, Minister Blair, with regard to making it less easy to smuggle guns at the border? I know that the estimates are one thing. Officials may have a certain plan forward, but as a minister, where's your leadership [Technical difficulty—Editor] this?

[Bill Blair, Liberal, Scarborough Southwest, ON]

It's in a number of places.

First of all, there are three ways in which criminals gain access to guns. They're smuggled across the border, stolen from legal gun owners or gun stores, or criminally diverted—where people buy them legally and sell them illegally. Bill C-21 addresses all three of those ways in which guns get into the hands of criminals.

Specifically at the border, we're increasing the maximum penalty, which I think will demonstrate to the courts Canadians' concern and denouncement of gun smuggling and will hold those individuals and organizations—this is an organized crime activity primarily—to account.

We're also making sure that the police and our border officers have access to the data and information that they need in order to be effective in detecting that activity of gun smuggling. We're adding additional resources, as well, to the police, the RCMP and municipal police services, and to our border services officers.

Finally, I will tell you from many years of experience that, without working collaboratively and co-operatively with U.S. authorities, we can't be completely successful because the U.S. is the source of so many guns. That's why we've reached out to the Department of Homeland Security to establish a new international border crime forum and a bilateral task force to deal with gun smuggling from both sides.

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

We are going to have to leave it there.

[Emmanuella Lambropoulos, Liberal, Saint-Laurent, QC]

Thank you very much.

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

It seems like run-on, conjunctive sentences are the order of the day.

Ms. Michaud, you may go ahead. You have two and a half minutes.

[Kristina Michaud, Bloc, Avignon—La Mitis—Matane—Matapédia, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Minister, I'd like to hear your comments on the situation related to fraud.

According to the Canadian Anti-Fraud Centre, as of February 28, 2021, there were 11,266 reports of fraud and 7,646 victims of fraud. The amount of money lost to fraud was more than $34.6 million.

Police officials indicate that police have their hands full dealing with just fraud complaints, especially related to the Canada emergency response benefit.

Has any Public Safety Canada funding been earmarked to tackle fraud, go after fraudsters and help members of the public who have been defrauded, for example, by providing compensation or covering the bill for them?

Does Public Safety Canada have a plan to tackle fraud, or does that responsibility fall to the Canada Revenue Agency or another department?

[Bill Blair, Liberal, Scarborough Southwest, ON]

Let me speak about fraud. Fraud can take many forms, and what we're also seeing is online fraud and cybercrime. Generally we've seen a significant increase and, particularly during the pandemic, I think people have been made more vulnerable. There are a number of very concerning circumstances where seniors and vulnerable people have been targeted with respect to fraudulent activity.

From a criminal investigation standpoint, it is the responsibility of the police of jurisdiction. For example, in the city of Montreal that would be the SPVM. In other jurisdictions, it might be the SQ. In addition to that, the RCMP at C Division in Quebec.... I'll speak specifically to Quebec, but the police of jurisdiction issue is relevant in every case. If it's a tier-one organized crime activity related to fraud, that is the responsibility of the federal police in C Division in the RCMP. All three orders of government and all three orders of police services have a responsibility there.

We are also looking at ways in which we can deal with many of the online harms. The RCMP have been very active in a number of significant investigations, because the source of these frauds is not domestic in many cases. It's actually taking place in other countries and then people are being victimized in Canada. That's where the RCMP plays a very important role in their federal policing role and responsibilities to work transnationally with police of other jurisdictions in other countries in order to address criminal activity that is victimizing Canadians. That is primarily within the public safety portfolio—our responsibility.

There are many implicated agencies in dealing with online harms and threats and criminal activity within the online space, including the finance department through FINTRAC, for example. We're all engaged in this.

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

Okay. We'll have to leave it there.

Mr. Harris, you have two and a half minutes.

[Jack Harris, NDP, St. John's East, NL]

Thank you, Chair.

Minister Blair, you talked about the changes in the SIUs as a result of Bill C-83.

We know from Dr. Doob's most recent report that we still have a situation in the prisons. There is solitary confinement still going on, and to the extent that it meets the accepted international definition, including by Canada, of torture. One in 10 inmates who are subjected to these SIUs are subjected to this.

That's a shocking thing for Canada to find from the report of Anthony Doob. What do you intend to do about that? Are you going to fix this, and how soon?