I'm sorry.
Evidence of meeting #23 for Public Safety and National Security in the 43rd Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was case.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Evidence of meeting #23 for Public Safety and National Security in the 43rd Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was case.
A recording is available from Parliament.
4:50 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal John McKay
I apologize to everyone, including Mr. Motz. We're not going to be able to get an answer to his question. Possibly somebody could pick it up later on.
Madam Lambropoulos, you have three minutes, please.
4:50 p.m.
Liberal
Emmanuella Lambropoulos Liberal Saint-Laurent, QC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
I'd like to thank both our witnesses for being with us today.
Mr. Myette, you spoke a lot about how good a program 7th Step could be and that it could act as a support group.
You've been involved for 38 years, and obviously you've seen many positive cases. I notice that the services are only offered in certain provinces and not in all of them. There aren't chapters in every province, including in my own province of Quebec.
I was wondering if there's anything particularly blocking it or if it's just because members haven't necessarily found out and started a chapter in these areas.
4:50 p.m.
Executive Director, 7th Step Society of Canada
Primarily, I think because we're a volunteer-based organization, we do get some support funding from Public Safety for volunteer development. To answer your question, though, in fact we are in the process of starting a chapter in Montreal, so that will be changing fairly soon.
Over the years, we have never been a largely funded organization like John Howard, Elizabeth Fry or others. Being somewhat of a self-help organization, we're dependent on volunteers in the community. Where we have success in finding local volunteers—particularly ex-offenders who get involved—we will establish chapters in those areas. In fact, due to some extra initiative on our part in the last couple of years, we've expanded into southern Ontario and into Saskatchewan. We were just about to start in Winnipeg prior to COVID. Throughout COVID, in fact, we have also now picked up some momentum in the Montreal area and in New Brunswick.
Yes, we are limited in certain ways, but where we are able to establish a base, we will provide services. However, we are largely a volunteer organization.
4:55 p.m.
Liberal
Emmanuella Lambropoulos Liberal Saint-Laurent, QC
I know you are a volunteer organization, but what are the methods you use for outreach, and once they've been released or once they're on parole, how do people find out that your organization exists and can help them if they do want to change?
4:55 p.m.
Executive Director, 7th Step Society of Canada
We try to distribute information in the institutions and through other community organizations. For example, I mentioned earlier that I sit on the board of the National Associations Active in Criminal Justice, which includes all the criminal justice community organizations. I mentioned John Howard, Elizabeth Fry, the Salvation Army and St. Leonard's. Through their organizations as well, we will try to disseminate information, and of course we have a website, which I'm guessing you looked at just from your comments.
Not all inmates have access to websites, because in the institutions, they don't, and—
4:55 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal John McKay
Unfortunately, we're going to have to leave it there, Madame Lambropoulos.
4:55 p.m.
Bloc
Kristina Michaud Bloc Avignon—La Mitis—Matane—Matapédia, QC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Mr. Myette, you have some fascinating experience. The work your organization does to support offenders is very important.
The Correctional Service of Canada-Parole Board of Canada National Joint Board of Investigation issued some recommendations for the joint report. However, no recommendations were made to the Parole Board to prevent situations like the Levesque case.
Based on your experience and your reading of this case, would you make any personal recommendations for improving the procedure or do you believe that everything is fine and no changes to the current procedure are needed?
4:55 p.m.
Executive Director, 7th Step Society of Canada
As I mentioned before—and somebody else commented on it—a case like this, especially a case of intimate partner violence, is somewhat unique, at least among the people I've been involved with who have committed murder. I think there has to be a very intensive psychological assessment and follow-up in the community.
That's why I said earlier that I agreed with some of Mr. Lafrenière's comments about additional oversight. It's never too late to change a decision. If somebody was released and needs to be corrected, it has to be done.
4:55 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal John McKay
Thank you, Madame Michaud.
Mr. Harris, you have one and a half minutes.
4:55 p.m.
NDP
Jack Harris NDP St. John's East, NL
Thank you.
Clearly Mr. Gallese was a high risk to reoffend when he was let out. The evidence is from the result of what happened. Either he was not properly assessed on the way out or he was not properly managed. I don't think we have the answers to that question.
What's your opinion, both of you, quickly? Do you believe this requires further investigation and a further independent inquiry into how his case was managed, both inside and outside the institution?
4:55 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal John McKay
If Mr. Lafrenière could turn off his camera, we might get better sound.
We'll go with Mr. Myette first.
4:55 p.m.
Executive Director, 7th Step Society of Canada
An additional investigation wouldn't hurt. I'm not sure that I have a specific answer as to what that should consist of, but I know that if it's a high-risk situation, revisiting it.... After all of this information is collected and recommendations are made, I would go back and sift through everything and take a look at it. I would defer to experts in the psychiatric assessment of individuals like Mr. Gallese.
4:55 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal John McKay
Please answer very briefly, Mr. Lafrenière.
We seem to have lost him totally.
5 p.m.
Retired Lawyer, As an Individual
The joint investigation by the Correctional Service of Canada and the Parole Board Canada is a mandatory, legislated investigation when tragic violent events such as this one occur.
The problem with these types of investigations is public perception. They give the impression that they are completely internal investigations, that they are only about investigating the organization. I would welcome an external investigation as well, if only to reassure the public and to show that the investigation is being done independently.
I'm not criticizing the work that was done, I'm criticizing the perception it gives.
5 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal John McKay
Unfortunately, we're going to have to leave it there.
Mr. Van Popta, you have three minutes.
5 p.m.
Conservative
Tako Van Popta Conservative Langley—Aldergrove, BC
Thank you.
Mr. Myette and Mr. Lafrenière, thank you for being here. I've listened with great interest to your testimony.
Mr. Myette, I was reading on the website for the 7th Step Society that no program has been effective in reaching out and influencing, I suppose, hardcore convicts. Would your organization be an exception to that rule, or is that a problem we face generally?
5 p.m.
Executive Director, 7th Step Society of Canada
I would say that we're not the only exception to the rule, but we certainly are one way of reaching people who have not responded to the standard rehabilitation programs that are there. Part of that is our self-help base, in that people who feel they can't connect with other organizations or programs just because they identify them as being part the system will be more amenable to participating in the 7th Step type of program.
Of course, we're not the only answer, but in a lot of cases we certainly have had an impact on people coming from that background, for recidivists in particular.
5 p.m.
Conservative
Tako Van Popta Conservative Langley—Aldergrove, BC
Good. Thank you.
Do you feel confident that if your program had been available in Quebec for the subject of our investigation today, it would have made a difference for him?