Pam, these are really important questions.
Commissioner Kelly is on the line. I'm reminded that I have all of the agency heads here with us today. I don't want to take their opportunity to respond, but I am in agreement with you that it's important. I think if you want to achieve something, what's measured is what's achieved. I think there needs to be clear transparency so that people can see....
I want to also commend the work of Dr. Zinger. I work very closely with Dr. Zinger. I've known him and worked with him for a number of years. I think his advice and his observations are very important and very helpful. I listen very carefully to what he has to say.
Very clear expectations need to be defined in a number of different areas, and not just in corrections but right across the entire public safety portfolio. I think we need to have timelines clearly defined. We're working through that, Pam. I'm in agreement with that. I think it needs to be open and transparent.
I believe, by the way, that the commissioners do as well. They want to be effective. They see the challenges, frankly, of many of our systems within the criminal justice system producing really bad results for indigenous people and racialized people. We know we need to do better.