Public Safety Committee on Feb. 25th, 2022

[A/Commr Dennis Daley]

Perhaps I'll start. Then I can turn it over to Deputy Duheme.

I am aware that significant efforts were made around, for instance, exclusion zones, in that the Emergencies Act allowed police broader and more clarity to enact exclusion zones. You may have seen in the media that there were up to 100 checkpoints. It also enabled the police more clarity on restricting travel, so that if there was information that a convoy was on the way to Ottawa, it enabled police to turn that convoy around—so travel restrictions.

The issue of compelling tow trucks was a significant issue. Certainly, I can speak to Alberta, but another significant issue was, we heard, where tow truck operators were either threatened or intimidated and stayed away.

As far as your question goes with respect to it as a deterrent and whether people left the city of Ottawa, I'll turn it over to Deputy Duheme.

[D/Commr Michael Duheme]

I don't have any numbers as to people who left, but obviously there was a deterrent against people coming back.

We've seen fewer people over the past weekend.

To your other question with regard to the economic side of things, we saw people leave when we started to go kinetic. They didn't want to stay there. They didn't want to have their trucks towed away.

I can tell you that after contacting the individuals over there, the comments after leaving were, “I'm not going back there.” Because their accounts were frozen and whatnot, it had a twofold effect. It was a good deterrent, but it also put things in perspective for the people who were there.

[Alistair MacGregor, NDP, Cowichan—Malahat—Langford, BC]

Yes, it just seems that we had a summary escalation, right, with the City of Ottawa, then the Province of Ontario and then the federal government, and yes, we had these laws in the books, but they weren't acting in their capacity and—

[The Chair, Liberal, Jim Carr]

Thank you, Mr. MacGregor.

[Alistair MacGregor, NDP, Cowichan—Malahat—Langford, BC]

—[Inaudible—Editor] these measures.

[The Chair, Liberal, Jim Carr]

Thank you very much.

I will now turn to Mr. Lloyd, who leads off this next round with a five-minute slot.

Mr. Lloyd, the floor is yours, sir. When you're ready, please proceed.

[Dane Lloyd, Conservative, Sturgeon River—Parkland, AB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

My first question is for Mr. MacKillop. You're an expert in money laundering. Are terrorist groups and organized crime using GoFundMe, GiveSendGo and other crowdfunding platforms to launder money?

[Barry MacKillop]

There have been studies by the Financial Action Task Force, which indicated that in some countries, they have, in fact, used these types of funding mechanisms or platforms in order to either attempt to raise money for terrorist activities or—

[Dane Lloyd, Conservative, Sturgeon River—Parkland, AB]

Have there been any cases in Canada, as far as you're aware?

[Barry MacKillop]

As far as I'm aware, we haven't seen them. However, they do not report to FINTRAC at this point, so I wouldn't see if that platform was being used. With the touchpoint they have with financial institutions, we do not currently see them being a high risk, but that doesn't mean they can't be used.

Criminals are always trying to adapt and find different and creative ways to hide their money or launder their money.

[Dane Lloyd, Conservative, Sturgeon River—Parkland, AB]

My next question is for Ms. Maislin Dickson. Nobody's been asking you too many questions today.

Under section 63 of the Criminal Code, there are provisions against unlawful assemblies. Was the assembly in Ottawa illegal before the invocation of the Emergencies Act?

[Samantha Maislin Dickson]

As I indicated in my previous answer, there were indeed laws on the books. The question became whether they were effective in dealing with the situation as it evolved, to the point that it got to when the declaration was issued.

[Dane Lloyd, Conservative, Sturgeon River—Parkland, AB]

Was the protest in Ottawa illegal before the Emergencies Act was invoked?

[Samantha Maislin Dickson]

I wasn't on the ground and wasn't aware of any charges being issued at that point in time.

[Dane Lloyd, Conservative, Sturgeon River—Parkland, AB]

You would say it wasn't illegal until the Emergencies Act came into place, and then it became illegal. Is that correct?

[Samantha Maislin Dickson]

No, sir. That's not what I said. I said I wasn't aware of any charges being issued.

Whether or not the activities were illegal, it was determined that it was not a peaceful protest and it had gone beyond what we would normally consider to be a lawful assembly.

[Dane Lloyd, Conservative, Sturgeon River—Parkland, AB]

Did the justice department not know before February 15 whether this was an illegal or a legal protest?

[Samantha Maislin Dickson]

I wouldn't be at liberty to disclose the legal advice that was provided to the government in the context of the unfolding situation. There were laws on the books. It was understood that the activities that were taking place went beyond what would be considered lawful assembly, but I wouldn't be able to go beyond that.

[Dane Lloyd, Conservative, Sturgeon River—Parkland, AB]

Before the invocation of the Emergencies Act on Monday, what would the process have been to seize the bank accounts of Canadians?

[Samantha Maislin Dickson]

I think one of your colleagues alluded to it. It would happen by way of a court process. Again, the sense would be whether the laws available would be effective to address the situation that arose. That is the determination that was made.

[Dane Lloyd, Conservative, Sturgeon River—Parkland, AB]

Why do we need courts to determine whether or not bank accounts can be frozen by the government?

[Samantha Maislin Dickson]

Because we have to be charter-compliant, and that is one mechanism by which we ensure that compliance.

[Dane Lloyd, Conservative, Sturgeon River—Parkland, AB]

That's in section 8 of the charter. Is that correct? It's unreasonable search and seizure.

[Samantha Maislin Dickson]

Among others, yes, that is correct.

[Dane Lloyd, Conservative, Sturgeon River—Parkland, AB]

Are you saying, then, that the Emergencies Act was necessary in order to suspend charter rights against unreasonable search and seizure under section 8?