Evidence of meeting #100 for Public Safety and National Security in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was work.
A video is available from Parliament.
Anne Kelly Commissioner, Correctional Service of Canada
No, I cannot confirm that information.
Conservative
Commissioner, Correctional Service of Canada
I can also not confirm that information.
Conservative
Frank Caputo Conservative Kamloops—Thompson—Cariboo, BC
Did you confirm that Luka Magnotta was there? Did the CSE eventually confirm that?
Commissioner, Correctional Service of Canada
Well, that's in the public domain right now.
Conservative
Frank Caputo Conservative Kamloops—Thompson—Cariboo, BC
Okay. How about Paul Bernardo? Did the CSE eventually confirm that he was there?
Commissioner, Correctional Service of Canada
That was also in the public domain.
Conservative
Frank Caputo Conservative Kamloops—Thompson—Cariboo, BC
I'm not asking whether it was in the public domain. I'm asking whether the CSE confirmed it for those two offenders, but you're not prepared to confirm it for the other two. Is that correct?
Conservative
Frank Caputo Conservative Kamloops—Thompson—Cariboo, BC
Okay, so we have one set of rules and another set of rules. I'm clear there.
Minister, as you know, we have the Corrections and Conditional Release Act, and it talks about the regulations. We're clear, obviously, on that.
Now, when it comes to the regulations, the government, the minister—you—have control over those regulations. Is that correct?
Liberal
Dominic LeBlanc Liberal Beauséjour, NB
There's a process through Treasury Board and a regulatory process, but I recognize that it's in the hands of the cabinet, yes.
Conservative
Frank Caputo Conservative Kamloops—Thompson—Cariboo, BC
It is in their hands, so the final say over the regulations is with the government. We can be clear on that. Is that correct?
Liberal
Dominic LeBlanc Liberal Beauséjour, NB
Again, I'm not an expert on parliamentary procedure. I think there's a committee, a joint scrutiny of regulations committee. Our colleagues in the Senate are very interested in these issues. I think I've—
Conservative
Liberal
Dominic LeBlanc Liberal Beauséjour, NB
If you want to have an esoteric discussion on the regulatory process, I'd be happy to have an official—
Conservative
Frank Caputo Conservative Kamloops—Thompson—Cariboo, BC
No, I'm not having an esoteric discussion. I'm saying that, when it comes to the regulations, the buck stops with the government. Is that correct?
Liberal
Dominic LeBlanc Liberal Beauséjour, NB
Again, there's a parliamentary review process that I'm not familiar with.
I get the trap in the question. I'll say yes, and then you'll find an example... I recognize that regulations are in the hands of the cabinet.
Conservative
Frank Caputo Conservative Kamloops—Thompson—Cariboo, BC
Minister, it's no trap; it's very clear. The reality is that the government creates the regulations. Then, the CSE, the Correctional Service of Canada, implements those regulations. Those regulations allowed for the transfer of Bernardo and Magnotta. You have the ability to change those regulations. Is that correct?
Liberal
Dominic LeBlanc Liberal Beauséjour, NB
The government has a general authority, as long as it's within the four corners of the statute, to change regulation.
Conservative
Frank Caputo Conservative Kamloops—Thompson—Cariboo, BC
I'm not talking about the authority. In this case, Minister, the government could change the regulations, and it hasn't. Is that correct?
Liberal
Dominic LeBlanc Liberal Beauséjour, NB
The government has confidence that the regulations are appropriate in giving the correctional service, in its independent and professional judgment, the responsibility of assigning convicted federal offenders, in this case, people convicted of murder, to the appropriate secure federal penitentiary.
Conservative
Frank Caputo Conservative Kamloops—Thompson—Cariboo, BC
In this case, then, you are okay with the likes of Magnotta, Bernardo and Williams being not only in medium security but being together at La Macaza. Is that correct?
Liberal
Dominic LeBlanc Liberal Beauséjour, NB
Again, for operational security reasons, which the commissioner can elaborate on, we don't discuss or actually do videos telling Canadians where particular inmates are serving their sentences. It's for the security of the men and women who work in those institutions. That's an irresponsible course that I don't think we're going to start on.
I share the concern that Canadians have about—
Conservative
Frank Caputo Conservative Kamloops—Thompson—Cariboo, BC
Minister, we're not talking about my conduct. We're talking here about the government and whether you will create regulations. Those regulations allowed the transfer of Bernardo. They allowed the transfer of Williams. They allowed the transfer of Magnotta. You're here telling us that, no, CSE is going to do its job.
Minister, you have the opportunity to change those regulations right here, right now. Will you commit to doing this? You've said that you don't intervene on specific cases. I'm not asking for you to intervene on a specific case. I'm asking for you to intervene on a class of offenders. Will you intervene on a class of offenders, an injustice that has happened, and change those regulations right here, right now?
Liberal
Dominic LeBlanc Liberal Beauséjour, NB
Again, if you want to be technical, I actually can't change those regulations right here and right now. I explained to you that there's a Treasury Board process—