Public Safety Committee on March 21st, 2024

[Damien Kurek, Conservative, Battle River—Crowfoot, AB]

I appreciate that. Thank you very much.

Commissioner Kelly, are narcotics and hard drugs allowed in Canadian prisons?

[Anne Kelly]

No, they are not.

[Damien Kurek, Conservative, Battle River—Crowfoot, AB]

Do you not think it's a bit disingenuous that there are prison needle exchanges and safe injection sites that allow for the legal consumption of narcotics in Canadian prisons?

[Anne Kelly]

These are harm reduction programs that have been implemented. In terms of the prison needle exchange program—

[Damien Kurek, Conservative, Battle River—Crowfoot, AB]

Commissioner Kelly, you stated that narcotics are not allowed in our prisons, yet there are programs that facilitate their legal use in our prisons. I think Canadians are rightfully disappointed. Quite frankly, I hear from many who are disgusted that this would be the official policy of the Correctional Service of Canada.

Further to that, Commissioner, do the guards who are responsible for ensuring that inmates are safe and that the Canadian public is safe—the correctional officers of this country—support those programs and their use in our prisons?

[Anne Kelly]

In terms of the prison needle—

[Damien Kurek, Conservative, Battle River—Crowfoot, AB]

Do guards and officers support these programs? They're the ones who are on the front lines, facing the consequences of these programs. Do they support those programs in our prisons?

[Anne Kelly]

I would say that some do support it, yes. I would say that the prison needle exchange program is more challenging, and there's more support for the overdose prevention service.

[Damien Kurek, Conservative, Battle River—Crowfoot, AB]

It's interesting. I've tabled a petition in the House of Commons from correctional officers, and I've spoken to many of them. I'm proud to represent Battle River—Crowfoot, which is home to a federal institution. Many of my constituents are, in fact, correctional officers. So far I have yet to find an officer who supports the administration and allowance of illegal narcotics in Canadian prisons.

Madam Commissioner, when it comes to stopping the flow of narcotics, do you think an environmental assessment of netting over a prison, or some other tool that could actually deal with things like drones, which is getting held up in the bureaucracy, is an acceptable excuse to slow down the approval of things that would actually stop the flow of illegal drugs into our prisons?

[Anne Kelly]

Actually, we've done an awful lot. Drones are definitely an issue—

[Damien Kurek, Conservative, Battle River—Crowfoot, AB]

They're a huge issue, yes.

[Anne Kelly]

—and there's been an increase in their use in the last year of 37%. Since 2020 there has been an increase of 104%. We have different measures that we use, such as intelligence and searches, and also we have drone protection systems—

[Damien Kurek, Conservative, Battle River—Crowfoot, AB]

However, I do hear, again, from—

[Jennifer O'Connell, Liberal, Pickering—Uxbridge, ON]

Chair, I have a point of order. I understand Mr. Kurek loves the sound of his own voice, but I would actually love to hear the answer from Commissioner Kelly on any of his questions.

[The Chair, Liberal, Heath MacDonald]

Let's continue, Mr. Kurek, please.

[Damien Kurek, Conservative, Battle River—Crowfoot, AB]

Thank you. I'm sorry that Ms. O'Connell is so offended by some of the questions I'm asking on behalf of prison guards in our country.

[Jennifer O'Connell, Liberal, Pickering—Uxbridge, ON]

No, I'd like to hear the answers.

[Damien Kurek, Conservative, Battle River—Crowfoot, AB]

Commissioner Kelly, the challenge associated with some of these things is that there has been a staggering decline in morale within the Correctional Service. There has been a host of concerns. There's not trust within the ombudsman's office.

My question is simple, and I hope to get a quick one to the Parole Board here as well. Will you commit to speaking with your officers on the ground to actually hear the concerns that they have within the service?

[Anne Kelly]

What I can say is that in the last few days I visited three institutions, and every time I visit an institution I speak to the union representatives and gather their comments.

[Damien Kurek, Conservative, Battle River—Crowfoot, AB]

Here is some unsolicited advice: Speak to some of the guards on the ground, Commissioner Kelly. I can tell you that in the conversations I have, there is a troubling lack of confidence and a growing decline in morale within your service that is ultimately impacting not only the public safety of those officers but also the trust that Canadians need to have in their institutions.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Heath MacDonald]

Thank you, Mr. Kurek.

We're moving on now to Mr. Gaheer, please, who is online.

[Iqwinder Gaheer, Liberal, Mississauga—Malton, ON]

Thank you, Chair. My questions are largely for the RCMP, but others should feel free to chime in as well.

Commissioner, we've seen a rise in extortion attempts that have been targeting the South Asian community across Canada. There has obviously been a large focus of that in B.C. and in Ontario. It always follows a very similar pattern, whereby business owners are reached out to, perhaps via a phone call made on WhatsApp, and a certain amount is demanded. If the demand is not met, then their businesses or their homes are targeted, oftentimes with gunfire. I've received videos from constituents of their homes actually being targeted by gunfire.

Do you want to comment on what the RCMP is doing to address this problem?

[Commr Michael Duheme]

First off, I feel sorry for people who have to go through this type of extortion. It's unacceptable in Canada. You will note that Peel started an extortion crime task force. There's also one in Edmonton and one in British Columbia. The RCMP has the overarching role of connecting all three organizations to make sure we have the right picture. There's some good intelligence being drawn from working together.

If we come across enough information where we have the appropriate information or evidence to lay charges, we will lay charges.

[Iqwinder Gaheer, Liberal, Mississauga—Malton, ON]

The RCMP has gone on record to state that organized crime is obviously linked to this as well, but this was not happening prior to the fall of last year. Very frankly, is there an international component to this that was triggered by something that happened in the fall?

[Commr Michael Duheme]

I'm not quite sure if the numbers were the same—I apologize if I don't have the statistics—or if this was influenced by a certain event, or whether there was still extortion but maybe not at the level you're seeing today and with the violence you're seeing today.