Public Safety Committee on April 15th, 2024

[The Chair, Liberal, Heath MacDonald]

I call this meeting to order.

Welcome to meeting number 102 of the House of Commons Standing Committee on Public Safety and National Security.

Today’s meeting is taking place in a hybrid format pursuant to the Standing Orders. Members are attending in person in the room and remotely using the Zoom application.

I would like to make a few comments for the benefit of the witnesses and members.

Please wait until I recognize you by name before speaking.

To prevent disruptive audio feedback incidents during our meeting, we kindly ask that all participants keep their earpieces away from their microphone. Audio feedback incidents can seriously injure interpreters and disrupt our proceedings.

I remind you that all comments should be addressed through the chair.

Pursuant to the motion adopted on October 23, 2023, the committee resumes its study on the growing problem of car thefts in Canada.

We have today two panels of witnesses. I would like now to welcome our witnesses for the first panel.

From the Ontario Provincial Police, we have Scott Wade, detective inspector.

From the Royal Canadian Mounted Police, we have Matt Peggs, assistant commissioner and commanding officer of federal policing, central region, division O; and Martin Roach, assistant commissioner and commanding officer of federal policing, eastern region, C division.

From the Canada Border Services Agency, we have Aaron McCrorie, vice-president, intelligence and enforcement.

Up to five minutes will be given for opening remarks after which we will proceed with rounds of questions.

Welcome to all of you.

I now invite Mr. Wade to make an opening statement, please.

[Detective Inspector Scott Wade, Ontario Provincial Police]

Thank you.

Good afternoon.

My name is Scott Wade. I am a detective inspector with the Ontario Provincial Police. I am assigned to the organized crime enforcement bureau, where I coordinate the provincial auto theft strategy, which includes the provincial auto theft and towing team.

The vehicles that we drive in Ontario have become a sought-after commodity. We have seen a dramatic increase in the value of used vehicles in this post-COVID-19 economy.

Organized crime networks have taken the opportunity to exploit the global supply and demand for vehicles and vehicle parts using profits from these thefts to finance other criminal activities such as drug trafficking, firearms trafficking, human smuggling, trafficking and international terrorism.

Organized crime groups travel interprovincially to major metropolitan regions using spotters to identify vehicles, thieves to steal them and runners to transport the vehicles to points of export. Many offenders have previous convictions for serious offences and use violent carjackings and home invasions to acquire the targeted vehicles.

We know that these vehicles are often placed in sea containers and find their way to the Port of Montreal for furtherance to Europe, Africa and the Middle East.

Once on our Ontario roadways, these vehicles are recklessly driven, threatening public and officer safety. When arrests are effected, the accused is often in possession of drugs, weapons, including firearms, and technological devices such as reprogrammed key fobs used to facilitate the theft of vehicles. The problem is very complicated and far from a victimless property crime.

In the OPP, we continue to work with our municipal, provincial and federal policing partners to ensure that these offenders do not go undetected. This includes intelligence sharing and active enforcement measures.

The Ministry of the Attorney General has dedicated Crown attorneys and support staff for the major auto theft prosecution response team, and we continue to work closely with them to ensure investigative excellence.

Collectively and collaboratively, we are responding to the national crisis of public and officer safety by disrupting the transnational criminal market being controlled by organized criminal networks. By working in tandem with the insurance industry, auto manufacturers and all levels of government to develop long-term solutions aimed at drastically reducing the number of vehicles being stolen, we are seeing incredible results.

As an example, the OPP has been working with the Canada Border Services Agency, our Ontario policing partners, the Criminal Intelligence Service Ontario, the Service de Police de la Ville de Montréal, SPVM, and the Sûreté du Québec at the Port of Montreal as part of Project Vector, recovering over 600 stolen vehicles prior to illegal exportation.

We have successfully worked with the SPVM, the Montreal police, to arrest 34 accused in Montreal as part of Project Volcano. These accused were all wanted on outstanding arrest warrants from eastern Ontario.

Additionally, the OPP continues to facilitate Project Emissions. This intelligence probe was created as an intelligence strategy to counter the auto theft crisis by collecting and sharing information with our policing partners provincially, nationally and internationally.

We prioritize the need for safety within our communities and for our officers. We must recognize the level of violence associated with these organized crime-directed vehicle thefts. We stand with our policing partners in calling to continue strengthening our port security and monitoring mechanisms to disrupt the illegal exportation of stolen vehicles; focus on our intelligence and enforcement strategies, continuing to work collaboratively with this information; seek stronger minimum sentences for repeat offenders and the creation of offences related to possession for the purpose of trafficking and/or exporting a stolen motor vehicle; and for consideration to be given to the availability of the maximum Criminal Code penalties currently available.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Heath MacDonald]

Thank you, Mr. Wade.

I now invite Mr. Peggs and Mr. Roach to make opening statements, please.

[Assistant Commissioner Matt Peggs, Commanding Officer of Federal Policing, Central Region, Division O (Ontario), Royal Canadian Mounted Police]

Mr. Chair, I'd like to thank you for the opportunity to speak to the committee today to share some of the important work under way to combat auto theft.

During the national summit on combatting auto theft, it was clear that many Canadians are feeling the impact of this serious crime. There's a concerning volume of vehicle theft in Canada, including an increased occurrence of violent thefts. Auto theft is directly affecting the safety of our communities.

The national summit also made clear that solutions require strong partnerships. Combatting vehicle theft requires co-operation among law enforcement organizations, governments, industry and international partners.

While the investigation of each auto theft incident falls under the police of jurisdiction, the RCMP federally supports the important work being done at the provincial and municipal levels to make progress on this issue.

For example, in Quebec the RCMP is participating in Project Rechercher led by the Sûreté du Québec. This project targets criminal groups responsible for the export of stolen vehicles. The RCMP is also involved in Project Vector led by the Ontario Provincial Police, which aims to disrupt organized crime activities on stolen vehicles at all stages of the outbound criminal supply chain.

These joint efforts are producing results. On April 3, the Ontario Provincial Police announced that project vector led to the recovery of 598 vehicles at the Port of Montreal.

Auto theft is also an issue that goes beyond Canada’s borders. The RCMP has a network of liaison officers and analysts deployed around the world to work with our international partners, including on the seizure of stolen vehicles originating from Canada.

I am particularly pleased to inform the committee that, in February, the RCMP integrated the Canadian Police Information Centre’s stolen vehicle information with INTERPOL's stolen motor vehicle database. The Canadian database contains details of more than 104,000 vehicles stolen in Canada. This information is now accessible to the international law enforcement community, which can query vehicles matching Canadian records in the INTERPOL database.

In the first six weeks of the integration with INTERPOL's database, there were over 1,000 query alerts related to Canadian records, and the RCMP has received over 150 new direct requests for international collaboration.

The RCMP's intelligence resources continue to collect and analyze intelligence to inform our direction. Nationally, the RCMP hosts the central bureau for Criminal Intelligence Service Canada, which delivers criminal intelligence products and services to the entire Canadian law enforcement community and other key stakeholders responsible for public safety.

In closing, I'd reiterate that the RCMP is fully engaged with partners to combat auto theft and to ensure that the criminals are held to account.

We look forward to answering any questions the committee members may have today.

[The Chair, Liberal, Heath MacDonald]

Thank you, Mr. Peggs.

Mr. McCrorie, please.

[Aaron McCrorie, Vice-President, Intelligence and Enforcement, Canada Border Services Agency]

Good afternoon, Mr. Chair and honourable members of the committee.

Thank you for having us here today to respond to your questions.

The Canada Border Services Agency has a dual mandate, to facilitate legitimate trade in support of a strong Canadian economy and to ensure border security and integrity to protect Canadians from a variety of threats including illegal drugs, firearms and the export of stolen vehicles.

This dual mandate is reflected in our results. In 2023, we facilitated the arrival of over 85 million travellers, and in the marine mode alone we facilitated the movement of over 3.5 million containers through Canadian ports. At the same time we were protecting our communities by preventing over 900 prohibited firearms and over 27,000 weapons from entering our country. We intercepted over 72,000 kilograms of prohibited drugs, cannabis, narcotics and precursor chemicals. We prevented 1,806 stolen cars from being exported.

Reflecting the priority we are putting on auto theft, so far in 2024 we have intercepted 949 stolen vehicles. Auto theft in Canada is clearly a threat that we will continue to address in close collaboration with our partners.

As we heard from all the participants at the National Summit on Combatting Auto Theft earlier this year, this is a complex problem with no single silver bullet or solution. This means two things.

First, everyone has a role to play: manufacturers, insurance companies, law enforcement, shippers and at the end of the line, the CBSA.

Second, from the CBSA point of view, supported by the $28 million in funding announced by the Minister of Public Safety prior to the summit, the CBSA is deploying an array of tools and approaches to combat auto theft. Using intelligence and data, we risk-assess shipments to find the needles in the haystack. About 2,300 containers come and go from the Port of Montreal each day. The vast majority are legitimate shipments that are key to Canadian prosperity. We are working to identify, assess and deploy technology that can help with searches.

Every day, we are deploying our highly trained and experienced border services officers who leverage intelligence and technology to search containers and seize stolen vehicles in ports and rail yards. From these seizures, we're sharing information and intelligence with police so they can pursue criminal investigations and lay charges. We are reviewing our legislation and regulations to see if we need changes to gather more data and share more information.

This has to be, and is, a collaborative effort. The CBSA continues to work very closely with the Royal Canadian Mounted Police, the Ontario Provincial Police, the Sûreté du Québec, the Service de Police de la Ville de Montréal and other police of jurisdiction to strengthen information sharing and support their criminal investigations. Last year, we participated in 14 different police operations and we are continuing to do so this year.

For example, we talked already about Project Vector, a joint operation between the CBSA, the OPP, the Sûreté du Québec, the SPVM and Équité Association, which resulted in 390 shipping containers being targeted and the recovery of 598 stolen vehicles.

We're also working with industry groups like Équité Association and the Canadian Vehicle Exporter's Association to further improve our targeting efforts.

As I noted earlier, auto theft is a complex problem that requires all players, including manufacturers, insurance companies, shippers, law enforcement and the CBSA, to play a role. Collectively, we need to make it harder to steal cars, we need to make it harder to move stolen cars to a port, we need to target the criminals stealing cars and we need to recover stolen vehicles in ports and rail yards.

That's why auto theft is a priority for the CBSA and we are committed to continuing to play our role.

Thank you.

I welcome any questions that you may have.

[The Chair, Liberal, Heath MacDonald]

Thank you, Mr. McCrorie.

I will now open the floor for questions.

We're going to move right to Mr. Shipley, please, for six minutes.

[Doug Shipley, Conservative, Barrie—Springwater—Oro-Medonte, ON]

Thank you, Chair. Thank you to all the witnesses for being here today.

I would like to start with Inspector Wade, with the OPP. I am very close to the OPP with my riding of Barrie—Springwater—Oro—Medonte. Your headquarters are just up the street in Orillia.

Recently, sir, your commissioner was here. He had previously said that auto theft is highly profitable with little risk and, in Ontario, “68% of those convicted serve a sentence of six months or less.” He had said, “We need to see stiffer penalties. We absolutely need to have a deterrence for these crimes.”

What impacts would you think stiffer, tougher penalties would have on combatting auto theft?

[Det-Insp Scott Wade]

Stiffer penalties have several effects. They provide a deterrent to the people who are committing the crimes. They also remove them from the public where they can commit more crimes. They are out of the public and not committing crimes.

Not only are there 68% of people with fewer than six months in sentencing, there are fewer than 1% who ever get a sentence over two years, even when it involves organized crime auto theft.

[Doug Shipley, Conservative, Barrie—Springwater—Oro-Medonte, ON]

Thank you.

My next question will be for both members of the RCMP and for Inspector Wade.

York Regional Police recommended to our committee that we should:

...consider legislative tools to combat auto thefts, including the review of existing legislation and the creation of new laws related to auto thefts and organized crime activities, similar to the Controlled Drugs and Substances Act. This could include offences related to possession, trafficking, and exportation of stolen vehicles, with stiffer penalties related to these crimes.

Could you expand on that twofold? One, explain to the committee what the difference is and how that could help. Two, do you feel that if it were put in place, it could help both the RCMP and the OPP deter auto theft?

[Det-Insp Scott Wade]

I can speak to that specifically.

The Controlled Drugs and Substance Act, CDSA, has specific offences related to possession for the purpose of trafficking, exporting and importing. Those are specific offences related to drugs.

With the specialized nature of auto theft and the proliferation of organized crime involved in auto theft, we need to recognize that, and recognize that these organized crime groups are using these vehicles for profit and exporting. If we can prove possession for the purpose of trafficking, it should be recognized as such and is a more serious offence.

[Superintendent Martin Roach, Assistant Commissioner and Commanding Officer of Federal Policing, Eastern Region, Division C, Royal Canadian Mounted Police]

Mr. Chair, most of this dynamic on legislation falls under our police of jurisdiction, but for us, the RCMP, some of the statements we made were more to put the emphasis on the coordination aspect, as was alluded to in the opening remarks of my colleague.

It is the coordination that we need to do at the international level, and that's what we've been working on in terms of building the capacity and putting our liaison officers at work, with the analysts, and deploying and maximizing our efforts on that.

[Doug Shipley, Conservative, Barrie—Springwater—Oro-Medonte, ON]

Thank you for that.

I'd like to talk about the ages of some of the people who are committing some of these crimes. I was listening to something the other day about an unbelievable event that happened in the GTA area, where one as young as 11 years old was caught. There was a group of four. I think they were 11 and 13, and there two 15- or 16-year-olds in that area, but one was definitely 11. They were charged—or caught, pardon me, because an 11-year-old can't be charged—with taking a vehicle.

We have heard here and in other meetings that this really is attracting a younger group to go after these vehicles. Can you touch on how organized crime is recruiting some of these kids—young kids—and how it's affecting them too? We're seeing this as a crime that's affecting a lot of people, but we're bringing kids into this now. It was horrific to hear that story.

Could you please expand on that a bit, on organized crime and how and where they're getting these kids from? Do you agree that the ages are getting unbelievably young in terms of committing some of these crimes?

[Det-Insp Scott Wade]

Sure. Thank you for the question. It's a very good one and is important.

The age of the offenders involved in vehicle theft, including carjacking and home invasions, is alarming. What we're seeing is an average age of 15- to 22-year-olds engaging in these crimes, as well as, as you mentioned, even younger children. I think there needs to be a recognition that organized crime is employing and recruiting youth to commit their crimes. I think there needs to be a discussion in regard to sentencing and investigations on exploiting vulnerable youth.

[Doug Shipley, Conservative, Barrie—Springwater—Oro-Medonte, ON]

Is there anything to add to that from the RCMP at all? No? Okay.

Mr. McCrorie, we've heard many times about the inspections of containers. I can't remember the number, but it was a very low number. At one point, rail was in here telling us that only one-millionth of all rail was inspected.

What is being inspected right now in terms of sea containers—percentage-wise—that are leaving this country?

[Aaron McCrorie]

I'd prefer not to talk about the percentage, because that gives our adversaries, if you will, a bit of an advantage. What I can say is that if you look at international reporting, around the world internationally about 2% of containers are physically inspected at any given time.

[Doug Shipley, Conservative, Barrie—Springwater—Oro-Medonte, ON]

Quickly, because I'm almost out of time—I'm sorry—I heard that in the U.S. 50% are inspected, so they're not afraid to put their number out. They've made it vocal that they inspect 50%. Why are we afraid to put ours out? How does that affect who's stealing a car? What percentage?

[Aaron McCrorie]

What we're focused on is using intelligence and information referrals from the RCMP, for example, but also our own intelligence, to target containers and separate the needles from the haystack, if you will. I think we're having success.

If you look at the results of our targeting in the Port of Montreal, for example, we've now seized 561 vehicles in the Port of Montreal. We started to do the same work in the Port of Vancouver, where we are seeing cars that are being stolen in Toronto and being shipped west through the Port of Vancouver. About 90% to 100% of the targeting is based on our intelligence. We have recovered 27 vehicles.

We will never have the logistical capability to screen every container going through. It would shut down our supply chains, given the volume of containers, but by being—

[Doug Shipley, Conservative, Barrie—Springwater—Oro-Medonte, ON]

I think you'd admit we could screen a lot more.

[Aaron McCrorie]

I think we are screening a lot more when it comes to stolen vehicles—certainly more than we did in the past—and we're seeing the results.

[The Chair, Liberal, Heath MacDonald]

Thank you both.

We'll move on to Mr. Bittle.

[Chris Bittle, Liberal, St. Catharines, ON]

Thank you so much, Mr. Chair.

Inspector Wade, you mentioned, in your evidence, new offences related to this. I understand your point, especially with respect to organized crime.

Are existing continuing criminal enterprise laws being used to target organized crime with respect to auto theft, or are they insufficient and need to be updated? Where does the OPP stand on this?

[Det-Insp Scott Wade]

Again, that's a good point with regard to criminal organization legislation.

In the organized crime enforcement bureau of the OPP, it's our focus in every investigation. Can we apply that law? If we can apply that legislation, we will.

[Chris Bittle, Liberal, St. Catharines, ON]

Most Canadians probably watch as much Law & Order as I do. What is on the books in Canada would be similar to RICO-style laws that exist in the United States. Is that fair to say?

[Det-Insp Scott Wade]

I would say that would be a simplified version of explaining what they are. They are very different, and there are probably benefits to exploring both of them.