Evidence of meeting #112 for Public Safety and National Security in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was interference.
A video is available from Parliament.
Liberal
Chris Bittle Liberal St. Catharines, ON
Do you see this legislation as having borrowed from other allies of ours?
As an Individual
Yes, I think so. Australia is often drawn upon, because it's very similar, as well as the United Kingdom. The U.S. is a bit harder, because their system of government—as you know—is different.
However, with respect to the United States, the main thing this will accomplish is that it will suggest to them, quite forcefully, that Parliament is taking this very seriously. Simply the creation of crimes and potential penalties of up to life imprisonment sends a pretty powerful message that the country is annoyed.
I think it's mostly the U.K. and Australia, but the United States will likely be pleased we're going down this path.
Liberal
Chris Bittle Liberal St. Catharines, ON
Thank you so much.
I will turn to Ms. Fung for a moment.
You've been a strong advocate for the creation of a foreign influence transparency and accountability act. Can you inform the committee of your advocacy work, consultations you may have had with the Department of Public Safety and your views on the bill we have in front of us with respect to that?
Immediate Past President, Canada-Hong Kong Link
I was involved in Hong Kong and then ever since I immigrated to Canada. I have been observing, monitoring and collecting data on foreign interference and transnational repression for the last three decades. I have served different NGOs and coalitions, helping all civil society organizations come to a common understanding about the magnitude and depth of foreign interference, especially transnational repression, which significantly impacts the safety and freedom of expression of Canadians on Canadian soil.
Liberal
Chris Bittle Liberal St. Catharines, ON
I will say thank you to our witnesses, and I'll pass it along.
Thank you.
Liberal
Bloc
René Villemure Bloc Trois-Rivières, QC
Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.
I'd like to thank all the witnesses, Ms. Leung, Ms. Fung and Mr. Fadden, for being with us tonight.
Mr. Fadden, I'll start with you, if I may.
Earlier, you mentioned a number of aspects of the bill. Tell us in a few words how we could improve it.
As an Individual
That's a good question, and one that I've been thinking a lot about. I believe that at the end of the day, given where we are today, there's not a lot to do. As I suggested to your colleague, the Federal Court's involvement should be somewhat reduced. I think that would help a little bit.
Fundamentally, I think this is a good bill. It's not a perfect bill, and you will no doubt want to change things in five years, but, compared to the laws of our allies, it's not all that bad.
Bloc
René Villemure Bloc Trois-Rivières, QC
Okay.
I had some questions about the commissioner's independence. We understand from reading the bill that the individual will be able to act independently. However, I still have reservations about their accountability to the Department of Public Safety and Emergency Preparedness. Personally, I'd prefer that there be real independence and that, in other words, the individual be appointed after consultation with parliamentarians and the other chamber, and not only after a briefing.
So what's your opinion on the independence of that individual?
As an Individual
I think the commissioner's independence is very important. I'd say that, at the end of the day, there would be some benefit in making the commissioner's position an officer of Parliament, similar to the Auditor General. I don't think the world will end if we do that sort of thing, but, if we continue to maintain the independence of the commissioner as prescribed in the bill, it would really be worth asking them whether it's working properly after 18 months to two years. The easy solution would be to make the commissioner an officer of Parliament.
Bloc
René Villemure Bloc Trois-Rivières, QC
When we look at the bill as a whole, it seems that we're looking for transparency, trust and leadership. Without prejudice to an individual, I think it would be easier and independence would be perceived better if there were real independence rather than a facade.
With regard to the registry, we note that foreign principals, as they are called in the bill, will have to register if they engage in influence activities to change public policy. What do you think of the idea of having two-party registration? By that I mean registration of both the foreign principal and the public office holder who is the target, if I can put it that way.
Let's establish that this is not considered an immense burden. It could be as simple as a notification. The idea behind this is that if one person registers and the other does not, an alarm bell will sound somewhere. We're talking about making the registry more effective.
What do you think of that approach?
As an Individual
Honestly, I hadn't thought about it before, but it seems to me that there would certainly be advantages to doing that, since it would encourage even more transparency.
On the other hand, I think unintended consequences should be carefully considered. I'd have to think about that a little bit. I would encourage you to ask your analysts to reflect on potential consequences that we can't think of at the moment.
Bloc
René Villemure Bloc Trois-Rivières, QC
We definitely need to think about unintended consequences as well as the red tape we want to try to avoid. The goal is not to make the machine work harder. We're seeking greater transparency.
I had another question for you.
What do you think about imposing some kind of a pause after a political term before joining a foreign entity, that is to say accepting a mandate for a foreign government?
As an Individual
I agree. In my case, when I retired, I couldn't talk to anybody for 12 months. So I think a pause on potential activities with a foreign entity isn't a bad thing at all. In fact, I think it would be a good thing.
Immediate Past President, Canada-Hong Kong Link
Could you ask the question in English?
Bloc
René Villemure Bloc Trois-Rivières, QC
No, I can't. You have to listen to the interpretation.
I hope you stopped my time, Mr. Chair.
Bloc
René Villemure Bloc Trois-Rivières, QC
You can't blame me for trying.
Ms. Fung, you are a known advocate for the creation of a foreign agent registry. Are you satisfied with the proposed registry as it stands?
Immediate Past President, Canada-Hong Kong Link
First of all, I am not a lawyer. However, we have been working with a lot of lawyers with respect to the act. All of our coalition member organizations consider Bill C-70 to be a good and strong bill.
Bloc
René Villemure Bloc Trois-Rivières, QC
Okay, thank you.
Ms. Leung, I have the same question for you.
