Evidence of meeting #113 for Public Safety and National Security in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was information.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Deputy Clerk of the Privy Council and National Security and Intelligence Adviser to the Prime Minister, Privy Council Office
This allows me to give a couple of precisions. So far, 42,000 documents have been provided to—
Conservative
Michael Cooper Conservative St. Albert—Edmonton, AB
I didn't ask how many have been provided. I asked how many have been withheld.
Deputy Clerk of the Privy Council and National Security and Intelligence Adviser to the Prime Minister, Privy Council Office
What I can tell you for sure is that no incidents and no intelligence have been withheld from the commissioner. We have provided—and this is an extraordinary measure—some memoranda to cabinet to the public inquiry—
Conservative
Michael Cooper Conservative St. Albert—Edmonton, AB
Respectfully, the report states that there is an undisclosed number of cabinet documents. I asked for a number. If you can't give a specific number, can you give a ballpark figure?
Deputy Clerk of the Privy Council and National Security and Intelligence Adviser to the Prime Minister, Privy Council Office
We have already said—and now we are trying to refine it a bit—that 8% of the documents we shared with the commission had some redactions for—
Conservative
Michael Cooper Conservative St. Albert—Edmonton, AB
I already said that, but there are an undisclosed number in addition to that.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Ron McKinnon
Mr. Cooper, I think you're badgering the witness. I wonder if we could just let her respond.
Deputy Clerk of the Privy Council and National Security and Intelligence Adviser to the Prime Minister, Privy Council Office
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Of course, we haven't shared with the commission things that were not relevant to her. It's impossible for me to determine how many documents we haven't shared with her.
Conservative
Michael Cooper Conservative St. Albert—Edmonton, AB
What is relevant here is that Madam Justice Hogue requested these documents and the Prime Minister's department is withholding them. What do you mean they're not relevant to Madam Justice Hogue?
Deputy Clerk of the Privy Council and National Security and Intelligence Adviser to the Prime Minister, Privy Council Office
We have not withheld any documents that are necessary for the work of the commission. She has all the relevant information she needs to do her work, and—
Conservative
Michael Cooper Conservative St. Albert—Edmonton, AB
No, she's not answering very simply, Mr. Chair.
I'm asking her—
Deputy Clerk of the Privy Council and National Security and Intelligence Adviser to the Prime Minister, Privy Council Office
I don't have a number for you.
Conservative
Michael Cooper Conservative St. Albert—Edmonton, AB
—who the Prime Minister is who is implicated in turning a blind eye to foreign interference, which has been the subject of an inquiry to determine what is relevant and what isn't relevant for the purview and review of Madam Justice Hogue.
Deputy Clerk of the Privy Council and National Security and Intelligence Adviser to the Prime Minister, Privy Council Office
The relevancy test is being done in comparison to her terms of reference and the mandate she has. She received all relevant information she needed to accomplish her work.
If I may give you a precision, my understanding of the footnote you are referring to in the interim report of the commission is that it's about whether or not the cabinet confidence we shared with her can be publicly released.
Conservative
Michael Cooper Conservative St. Albert—Edmonton, AB
Madame Drouin, if the Prime Minister had nothing to hide, he would turn over all documents Madam Justice Hogue has requested. The fact that he hasn't done this speaks for itself, and I think Canadians can draw appropriate conclusions.
Liberal
Deputy Clerk of the Privy Council and National Security and Intelligence Adviser to the Prime Minister, Privy Council Office
Thank you.
I think cabinet confidence is really at the core of parliamentarians' democracy work. It is absolutely essential to make sure the decision-making process continues to work appropriately. This is not a political question. This is the core of our Westminster system—making sure ministers can freely share their opinions and that cabinet solidarity can be maintained.
Again, I want to make sure you're all aware that Justice Hogue received all the necessary information and that disclosure continues for phase three of our work.
Conservative
Michael Cooper Conservative St. Albert—Edmonton, AB
All that is necessary is determined by the Prime Minister.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Ron McKinnon
Mr. Cooper, your time is up.
We'll call the answer done and go to Ms. O'Connell for five minutes.
Liberal
Jennifer O'Connell Liberal Pickering—Uxbridge, ON
Thank you, Chair.
Madame Drouin, I'd like to give you the opportunity to actually answer the question, because as we've seen, Conservatives seem to only be interested in their own clips and not providing information.
Mr. Villemure laughs. I think he'd prefer I make him a sandwich and allow the work to be done by the men in this room, as he indicated to me. What's important is that I stick to doing this work, as someone who served on NSICOP and who's been looking at foreign interference—
Conservative
Conservative
Garnett Genuis Conservative Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB
Mr. Chair, Ms. O'Connell cannot make outrageous, baseless accusations against my Bloc colleague in this forum. Simply because of a facial reaction to a discussion, she made a vile accusation of sexism against him. That's unparliamentary and—