Public Safety Committee on June 10th, 2024

[Alistair MacGregor, NDP, Cowichan—Malahat—Langford, BC]

Thank you, Chair. We're now going to page 85. NDP-11 is going to replace line 2 on page 85 with what you can see there, and then by adding after line 20 on the same page what you can see there. I just want to make sure I have it all. Yes.

This amendment provides for the naming of foreign principals without broadly specifying a list of countries. It can be a tool that's used sparingly, an enhanced tier that allows the option of requiring increased reporting and disclosure requirements when a mere registration is not enough to mitigate negative risks of foreign influence from hostile states. If it's used appropriately, the enhanced tier could overcome some of the problems encountered by Australia's country-agnostic version.

For example, the Australian Strategic Policy Institute has pointed out that the activities of the United Front Work Department of the Chinese Communist Party, as well as the role played by the Confucius Institutes at Australian universities, are entirely missing from the FITS registry.

Overall, I think we're respecting a country-agnostic registry but just providing a specific tier.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ron McKinnon]

Is there any discussion?

[Michael Chong, Conservative, Wellington—Halton Hills, ON]

I have a question. I'd like to hear from officials whether or not the activities of the United Front Work Department would be captured by part 4 of this bill.

[Richard Bilodeau]

Thank you for the question. I'll answer it in this way.

There are three triggers to require a registration obligation in the legislation. Those three activities are communication with a public office holder, communication to the public, and the disbursement of money in relation to a government or political process. Whether it's done by somebody operating under the United Front Work Department or some other organization, as long as those three elements are there, the registration obligation is triggered.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ron McKinnon]

Go ahead, Mr. MacGregor.

[Alistair MacGregor, NDP, Cowichan—Malahat—Langford, BC]

To the officials, in this amendment, adding after line 20 that the Governor in Council “may” establish a list is giving the cabinet the option to list the name of a foreign principal if there's a concern that this foreign principal is of particular concern.

I believe there was a diplomat from the Chinese embassy who was named persona non grata. His name was shared all over the media. What could be some of the consequences of doing this? If there is a principal who is of concern, is there not some benefit to naming that person and saying that this person is a threat?

[Richard Bilodeau]

The commissioner will have discretion in applying the legislation and determining in any given situation if an entity in Canada who is in an arrangement with a foreign body meets the definition of a foreign principal. The commissioner will be well placed to make that determination.

In addition to that, I would say that the commissioner will have at their disposal the ability to issue interpretations or bulletins and could communicate information in that way as well. They would completely retain the independence to do that in any given situation.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ron McKinnon]

Is there any further discussion?

Shall NDP-11 carry?

(Amendment negatived [See Minutes of Proceedings])

BQ-14 and BQ-15 can't be moved because other things were not. That brings us to BQ-16.

Mr. Villemure, you have the floor.

[René Villemure, Bloc, Trois-Rivières, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Amendment BQ‑16 concerns the Commissioner's annual report and specifies that this report must be tabled in the House of Commons and the Senate instead of being given to the minister, in order to ensure greater transparency. This is a recommendation made by several witnesses, including Mr. Thomas Juneau, who said it would be a good practice.

The amendment proposes therefore that Bill C‑70, in clause 113, be amended by replacing lines 22 to 28 on page 85 with the following:the end of each fiscal year, prepare an annual report on their activities during that year and submit it to the Speakers of the Senate and the House of Commons, who must each table it in the House over which they preside without delay after receiving it or, if that House is not then sitting, on any of the first 15 days on which that House is sitting after they receive it.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ron McKinnon]

Thank you, Mr. Villemure.

Go ahead, Ms. O'Connell.

[Jennifer O'Connell, Liberal, Pickering—Uxbridge, ON]

Thank you, Chair.

To the officials, concerning the way the current legislation is written without this amendment, is the minister allowed to change or alter the report or request the commissioner to change it?

[Richard Bilodeau]

Our understanding is that “the Minister must cause the report to be tabled” means that the minister receives the report from the commissioner and then turns around and tables it in the House of Commons without the ability to change it.

[Jennifer O'Connell, Liberal, Pickering—Uxbridge, ON]

Therefore the minister couldn't change it and the minister couldn't refuse to table it. Is that your understanding as well of the line “must cause”?

[Richard Bilodeau]

That's right. There's no discretion there.

[Jennifer O'Connell, Liberal, Pickering—Uxbridge, ON]

Thank you.

Again, I understand the rationale behind this amendment, but with the report not being able to be changed and having to be tabled in the House, I don't see an issue with the legislation as is.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ron McKinnon]

Thank you.

Is there any further discussion?

(Amendment negatived [See Minutes of Proceedings])

[The Chair, Liberal, Ron McKinnon]

Mr. Villemure, you have the floor regarding amendment BQ‑17.

[René Villemure, Bloc, Trois-Rivières, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

This amendment is similar to amendment BQ‑16, but instead of the annual report, it concerns the special report.

I move that Bill C‑70, in clause 113, be amended by replacing lines 29 to 36 on page 85 with the following:

29 The Commissioner may, at any time, prepare a special report on any matter that is within the scope of their powers, duties and functions and submit it to the Speakers of the Senate and the House of Commons, who must each table the report in the House over which they preside without delay after receiving it or, if that House is not then sitting, on any of the first 15 days on which that House is sitting after they receive it.

The intention here is for the Commissioner to report to Parliament rather than directly to the minister, so that a healthy distance can be maintained between the Commissioner and the minister.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ron McKinnon]

Thank you.

Go ahead, Ms. O'Connell.

[Jennifer O'Connell, Liberal, Pickering—Uxbridge, ON]

Chair, again to officials, my concern with this is that if the report went directly to the House, there would have to be some redactions or protections put in place in terms of national security information being tabled publicly.

[Richard Bilodeau]

In any report that is tabled in the House publicly, there are always concerns about classified information being shared in that manner.

Typically, when organizations receive intelligence, there are caveats. There are limits to what can be done. We would always be conscious that when the commissioner tables a report, he or she would be able to do so in a way that protects classified information.

[Jennifer O'Connell, Liberal, Pickering—Uxbridge, ON]

Any of these reports could be reviewed by NSIRA or NSICOP. If something was included that, let's say, needed to be redacted for the public version, there would be an opportunity to see the unredacted version in the right setting, because the minister can't alter the report.

[Richard Bilodeau]

I'll answer the question this way, Chair. NSIRA and NSICOP have an ability within the legislation to review the use of intelligence by the commissioner. If they misuse the intelligence, I would assume that NSIRA and NSICOP would, or would have the ability, at least, to look at that and make a determination.

I'll admit that I'm not an expert in NSIRA and NSICOP reviews, but it is intended to include some level of accountability in the use of intelligence.

[Jennifer O'Connell, Liberal, Pickering—Uxbridge, ON]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ron McKinnon]

Is there any further discussion?

Shall BQ-17 carry?

(Amendment negatived [See Minutes of Proceedings])