Public Safety Committee on Aug. 28th, 2024

[Pemi Gill, Assistant Deputy Minister, Department of Citizenship and Immigration]

There are, under the Citizenship Act, provisions that allow for the revocation of someone who has been granted citizenship. Under it, the minister of IRCC may seek a declaration from the Federal Court that the person obtained citizenship “by false representation or fraud or by knowingly concealing material circumstances.”

The process for this is such that the IRCC does an initial assessment as to whether or not there is sufficient evidence and information to proceed with starting the revocation process. The client, the individual, is then notified that there is some information and that we are assessing it. They're given 30 days, from a procedural fairness perspective, to provide any additional information they'd like to, at which time the IRCC, on behalf of the minister, advises the client that we are pursuing and moving forward with a revocation procedure. Depending on the circumstances and which of the three areas or combination of them applies—false representation, fraud or knowingly concealing material circumstances—we then proceed with a submission to the Federal Court, which would be the decision-maker for the revocation, although the client always has the choice to request that the minister of IRCC be the decision-maker.

[Salma Zahid, Liberal, Scarborough Centre, ON]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ron McKinnon]

Thank you.

Mr. Fortin, you have the floor for two and a half minutes.

[Rhéal Fortin, Bloc, Rivière-du-Nord, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

My question is for Ms. Zafar, who represents the Department of Citizenship and Immigration.

We know that the son arrived here from the United States. There is no mention of where the father came from. We are told that he entered Canada on February 5, 2018, at Lester B. Pearson Airport.

Do you know where the father came from?

[Aiesha Zafar]

I thank the member for his question.

At this time, due to the ongoing criminal proceedings, I am unable to provide any further details on the father.

[Rhéal Fortin, Bloc, Rivière-du-Nord, QC]

Okay.

Can any of the other witnesses tell me where the father came from?

No one knows.

I'll go back to the son then, Ms. Zafar. I think—

[The Chair, Liberal, Ron McKinnon]

Mr. Gerretsen has a point of order.

[Mark Gerretsen, Liberal, Kingston and the Islands, ON]

Just to clarify, it was said that no one knows, but can we understand if no one knows or if no one can provide the information? I think that's very important.

[Rhéal Fortin, Bloc, Rivière-du-Nord, QC]

It's impossible to tell.

That said, I don't want to waste my speaking time. Did you stop the timer, Mr. Chair?

[The Chair, Liberal, Ron McKinnon]

Yes, I've stopped your time.

Could we just clarify that question?

[Vanessa Lloyd]

I thank the member for the clarification. It is correct to say, as Ms. Zafar mentioned, that we are unable to comment on that detail due to the ongoing proceedings.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ron McKinnon]

Very well. Thank you.

Please continue, Mr. Fortin.

[Rhéal Fortin, Bloc, Rivière-du-Nord, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I'll continue with Ms. Zafar.

In the son's case, the chronology of events shows that he arrived from the United States. He was born in Egypt and has Egyptian citizenship, but he arrived from the United States. He entered Canada and sought asylum in February 2020.

Why wasn't he returned to the United States under the safe third country agreement?

[Aaron McCrorie]

Thank you for the question.

Because he arrived at a port of entry—which are managed by CBSA—he made an inland claim. I can't speak about his details in particular, but if somebody arrives at a land port of entry and makes an inland immigration or refugee claim, we assess them against the safe third country agreement, the STCA. There are a number of exemptions that apply to the STCA, including if you have an anchor family member here, so if somebody—

[Rhéal Fortin, Bloc, Rivière-du-Nord, QC]

So what exception was applied in the son's case? Theoretically, he should have been sent back to the United States.

[Aaron McCrorie]

I can't talk about this specific case. What I can say is that if you have family members in the country, that is one of the exemptions at play with the STCA.

[Rhéal Fortin, Bloc, Rivière-du-Nord, QC]

Does this exception apply even if the family member is a terrorist?

[Aaron McCrorie]

The STCA says that if you have an anchor, for example, if you have a family member who's in the country, you're exempt from the STCA.

[Rhéal Fortin, Bloc, Rivière-du-Nord, QC]

Yes, but, four times, that person—

[The Chair, Liberal, Ron McKinnon]

Thank you, Mr. Fortin. I'm sorry, but your time is up.

[Rhéal Fortin, Bloc, Rivière-du-Nord, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ron McKinnon]

We have Mr. MacGregor, please, for two and a half minutes.

[Alistair MacGregor, NDP, Cowichan—Malahat—Langford, BC]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

This committee has been told several times today that when actionable intelligence became available, all the Canadian security agencies took action. We can see from the timeline that it was in June 2024 when CSIS became aware of the potential national security threat posed by the subject, who is an Egyptian national.

There have been a number of questions today about how we gather intelligence, how it's acted upon and how it's shared, and I know specifics can't be shared. When it comes to an organization like ISIS, whose main theatre of operations is in parts of the Middle East, which have for at least a decade or more suffered through war and all kinds of strife, I'm wondering if CSIS could just inform the committee and maybe Canadians, generally, what the challenges are in gathering intelligence in areas like that.

What are the kinds of challenges, whether it's from human-sourced intelligence or open source intelligence, when you are operating in a theatre that has experienced war for so long and that may have crumbling infrastructure and may have little to no government records? Can you talk a little about the challenges of what it's like to operate in that kind of an environment?

[Vanessa Lloyd]

Mr. Chair, I would say to the honourable member, I'm unable to go into the details of our specific operational activities either in Canada or abroad. What I can tell you is that the member is correct in that conflicts that are occurring abroad can have the potential to cross into our borders. That can be from a range of threats, whether it be ideologically motivated, politically motivated or religiously motivated.

I would again like to reassure the committee that, as stated earlier in our testimony, CSIS and our partner national security agencies have the resources and the capabilities to address all threats as soon as we become aware of them, regardless of their provenance.

[Alistair MacGregor, NDP, Cowichan—Malahat—Langford, BC]

Thank you.