Public Safety Committee on Dec. 3rd, 2024

[Raquel Dancho, Conservative, Kildonan—St. Paul, MB]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Iqwinder Gaheer]

Thank you, Ms. Dancho.

Next is Ms. Zahid for six minutes.

[Salma Zahid, Liberal, Scarborough Centre, ON]

Thank you, Chair.

Thanks to all the witnesses.

My first question is for the Department of Public Safety and Ms. Geddes.

Funding in these estimates has been set aside for the new Canada community security program and the Canada Centre for Community Engagement and Prevention of Violence.

Can you speak to how the new Canada community security program builds off the success of SIP, the security infrastructure program, to keep safe the communities at risk of experiencing hate? Also, can you tell us about the important work that the Canada centre is doing, especially in the counter-radicalization space?

[Tricia Geddes]

I mentioned this a little bit in my opening remarks and I'm happy to elaborate a bit.

This is a really important program. It was so successful last year in terms of the uptake by community leadership that we made some important modifications to the community security infrastructure program and brought them forward in the new Canadian community security program. There are some important changes that have been made, in particular to enable us to support communities if they need to hire security guards, for example. We have had a really impressive reaction to this program.

I will say that it's unfortunate that it is required. The fact that anti-Semitism, Islamophobia and these types of issues are on the rise in Canada is deeply concerning to our department and to everyone in our portfolio agencies. We put in place these types of measures in order to be able to support the communities that most need them.

In addition, you did flag our Canada Centre. We do some really important prevention research, and we provide funding to key community leaders to work on prevention of these types of actions in the first place and to reduce the type of radicalization to violence that concerns our communities.

[Salma Zahid, Liberal, Scarborough Centre, ON]

Thank you.

Some of the religious places in my riding have taken advantage of that funding, and it really makes a difference. Thank you for that.

My next question is for the RCMP.

Commissioner, in October of this year, a federal RCMP investigation took down the largest and the most sophisticated drug lab in Canada. Can you please tell us about the raid and the work the RCMP continues to do to shut down illegal drug operations?

[Commr Michael Duheme]

From a national perspective, the RCMP works very closely with its law enforcement partners and with other government departments. We have a committee called CIROC, which is an integrated unit combatting organized crime. It's at the national level, and they are finalizing a strategy with tangible deliverables on all things fentanyl.

The work you're referring to is the wonderful work of our folks in British Columbia, which resulted in the seizure of a huge amount of fentanyl and precursors, as well as a number of firearms. When you break it down, you're looking at 95 million doses that were prevented from going to the streets from British Columbia.

We've also had good success over 2024. Several places, such as P.E.I. and Newfoundland, have had good success when it comes to fighting fentanyl.

[Salma Zahid, Liberal, Scarborough Centre, ON]

When it comes to stopping criminals who would traffic in guns and drugs, there is an international element involved. Can you please update this committee on the partnerships the RCMP has with American law enforcement and how those partnerships are keeping our communities safe from firearms and fentanyl?

[Commr Michael Duheme]

There are many committees that we are part of, as is the CBSA. One is the cross-border crime forum. That involves several Canadian departments as well as American departments.

On the international scene, there's shared information on many fronts via the Five Eyes. At the North American Leaders' Summit, trilateral agreements were signed by the President of the Unites States, the Prime Minister of Canada and the President of Mexico.

We have a precursor-targeting intake program in Canada. We reach out to manufacturers, suppliers and whatnot. There is also a lot of work going on with DEA. Last March, there was actually a symposium in Toronto to bring Canadian and American colleagues together to discuss fentanyl and learn from each other.

[Salma Zahid, Liberal, Scarborough Centre, ON]

Do I have time?

[The Chair, Liberal, Iqwinder Gaheer]

You still have time.

[Salma Zahid, Liberal, Scarborough Centre, ON]

Through Bill C-21, the government created new Criminal Code provisions targeting the printing of ghost guns. Can you please update this committee on how those new provisions are being used to combat the use of 3-D-printed ghost guns?

[Commr Michael Duheme]

I'd probably like Tricia to chime in, but I would say that ghost guns are a huge concern to us and to our American colleagues. For those who are not familiar, it's a gun printed by a 3-D printer for which metal parts can be purchased online. They fabricate the 3-D gun without any serial number. What we see from criminals and organized crime groups is that the gun is used once and then is disposed of. That is challenging, and I welcome the new legislation to allow us to seize the equipment that's now illegal when we do a search in a residence.

[Salma Zahid, Liberal, Scarborough Centre, ON]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Iqwinder Gaheer]

Thank you.

Madame Michaud, go ahead for six minutes, please.

[Kristina Michaud, Bloc, Avignon—La Mitis—Matane—Matapédia, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you all for being here. We're always happy to have you.

My first questions will be for the Commissioner of the RCMP.

Earlier, you mentioned Roxham Road and the relocation of personnel. Ms. Dancho referred to a CBC/Radio-Canada article that reported the following:

In an internal memo obtained by CBC/Radio-Canada, Royal Canadian Mounted Police (RCMP) Eastern Quebec Region management stated that “each program will contribute 25% of its regular member strength to support [border protection and integrity].”

Of course, this comes on the heels of U.S. President-elect Trump's threats to impose 25% tariffs, and the statement by Minister LeBlanc, who said Canada would beef up border security.

It reminded me of the situation we experienced at Roxham Road. At the time, many RCMP officers were deployed there.

What does it mean when officers from other sectors are called in and assigned to the border, for instance? A few months ago, we were talking about gun control and the fact that there were a lot of illegal imports of firearms. We wondered where the RCMP officers were. We had the impression that they were all deployed at Roxham Road to deal with irregular migrants.

We want to increase border security, and that's great, but I think other solutions could be used.

What are the consequences of moving RCMP officers in this way? Does this have any consequences for other struggles that are being waged in parallel with border security?

[Commr Michael Duheme]

Thank you for your question.

Of course, when you mobilize resources to meet a priority, it has consequences elsewhere. Like other police forces, we allocate resources according to priorities. Ms. Erin O'Gorman mentioned the same thing earlier.

In Quebec and Ontario, the border between ports of entry is the responsibility of the federal police. There is also a federal police presence across the country.

So this brings us back to Ms. Dancho's question about removing people from detachments that provide frontline security. However, before redeploying RCMP officers who are assigned to frontline services, we first look for resources in our federal police services.

As I said earlier, priorities are changing and we need to deploy people according to those priorities.

[Kristina Michaud, Bloc, Avignon—La Mitis—Matane—Matapédia, QC]

Thank you.

Ms. O'Gorman, one solution that seems ideal is to allow border services officers to patrol between border crossings, as the RCMP can do. Yesterday, the president of the Customs and Immigration Union, Mr. Mark Weber, sent a letter to the Minister of Public Safety, Mr. LeBlanc, saying that union members were willing to do this work and had the expertise to do it. He also said that Canadian law might allow border services officers to do this kind of thing, but that an order‑in‑council passed in 1932 prevented them from doing so.

So it would take a bit of political will on the part of the minister to drop that decree and allow border services officers to go out and patrol and lend a hand between border crossings.

Are you aware of these requests from the union and agents? Do you think this could be a good solution for securing the borders?

[Erin O'Gorman]

Like my colleagues, I'm willing to consider any solution that would contribute to safety. There's no doubt about that. I agree with Mr. Weber that our officers are prepared to do what they have to do to keep Canada safe. They are motivated and they work hard every day.

So, a change in legislation is necessary, and as I said, it's really up to the government and Parliament to make that kind of decision.

For my part, I'd like to see an analysis of the effects of such a mandate on entry points. As I said, every day at the ports of entry, our employees are working to fulfil our mandate.

[Kristina Michaud, Bloc, Avignon—La Mitis—Matane—Matapédia, QC]

Thank you.

Border security is a hot topic these days. The Government of Canada just announced that it will do the same as the United States and reduce service hours at certain border crossings. That affects some ridings in Quebec, because those border crossings will have reduced hours of service beginning on January 6. That sends somewhat of a conflicting message, because at the same time, more officers are said to be needed at and in between border crossings.

When I raised that to the government, I was told that the decision had been made to reduce hours of service at certain border crossings that figures showed were not very busy. However, those figures were not broken down on an hourly basis.

I imagine you don't have the information in hand, but could you get back to the committee with the border crossing numbers for the Trout River and Herdman ports of entry, for instance? That way, we'll know when people cross the border there. We were told that, after 6 p.m., some ports of entry had just two crossings.

[Erin O'Gorman]

I want to make clear that, for us, it's not about reducing hours of service. It's about aligning Canada's hours of service at those border crossings with the U.S.'s. It is very hard for a Canadian or U.S. port of entry to operate when the port of entry in the other country is closed. We always try to align our hours of service with those of our partners on the other side of the border, and vice versa.

I can tell you that, for those 30 ports of entry, an average of two cars or trucks cross an hour. I can provide that information to the committee. However, it comes down to security. It's about making sure we have a partner on the other side of the border and redeploying officers to ports of entry that are higher risk because of larger volumes.

[The Chair, Liberal, Iqwinder Gaheer]

Thank you.

Mr. MacGregor, go ahead for six minutes.

[Alistair MacGregor, NDP, Cowichan—Malahat—Langford, BC]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Thank you to all of the officials who are joining us at the committee today.

I'd like to start with Mr. Rogers and the service.

I've taken a look at the detailed breakdown of what you are asking for in these supplementary estimates. I can see that the lion's share of the funding you are requesting is to “mitigate security risks” and “enhance intelligence capabilities”.

What I would like to know is how much of this funding is related to the new legislative authorities the Parliament of Canada granted CSIS through Bill C-70. I just want to get a sense of how that legislation is being operationalized and how these costs relate to that.

[Daniel Rogers, Director, Canadian Security Intelligence Service]

Thank you for the question. I'm happy to answer.

You're right that the bulk of the funding is for increasing intelligence capacity and mitigating security risks. I will say that it's not directly tied to the new legislation, but that will certainly help our ability to implement it.

An increase to our intelligence capacity means we will have better visibility for intelligence threats, which we can then share through resilience disclosures. This is something Bill C-70 affords us the ability to do. It also means that new tools in Bill C‑70 will be implemented through this. We have new production orders and mechanisms that allow us to seek information. Some of this capacity will be directed towards things like the ability to use technology and digital tools to assist in our intelligence. Those authorities interrelate.

We will see an overall increase linked to Bill C-70 but not directly tied to it.

[Alistair MacGregor, NDP, Cowichan—Malahat—Langford, BC]

Thank you for that.

I have one other question about the detailed breakdown of the money you're asking for.

It's not something I normally associate with CSIS. There's a line item for “recovery of proceeds from parking fees collected”. You're asking for $1.7 million. I'd just like to know why $1.7 million is necessary for this.

[Daniel Rogers]

I'll allow my CFO to respond, if that's all right.