Evidence of meeting #134 for Public Safety and National Security in the 44th Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was campaign.
A video is available from Parliament.
Mayor of Brampton, As an Individual
A lot of what you hear would be hearsay, so I don't want to.... Unless I hear it directly, I don't want to—
Liberal
Jennifer O'Connell Liberal Pickering—Uxbridge, ON
That's the nature of campaigns. I hear, “This volunteer wants our government or party to go this way.” That's the nature of how we work in this business and develop policy.
Did it ever come to you that a captain was no longer going to sell memberships for you?
Mayor of Brampton, As an Individual
It was only communicated to me directly when someone would say, “The consul general was upset over your position on this”, not that they weren't going to sell memberships. Anything additional would have been through hearsay.
Liberal
Jennifer O'Connell Liberal Pickering—Uxbridge, ON
Why did you connect the two—the consul general being upset when I asked about the selling of memberships?
Mayor of Brampton, As an Individual
I guess if the consul general is upset, it might diminish someone's enthusiasm if they have a good relationship with the consul general.
Liberal
Jennifer O'Connell Liberal Pickering—Uxbridge, ON
I see, so I misunderstood. Someone came to you and said that they were selling memberships and that the consul general was upset.
Mayor of Brampton, As an Individual
It was never in the context of selling memberships, but it would come back to me that I had taken positions the consul general was not happy with.
Liberal
Mayor of Brampton, As an Individual
Yes. It was with people who were supporting me.
Liberal
Jennifer O'Connell Liberal Pickering—Uxbridge, ON
Right. The consul general reached out to members supporting you and members of your campaign team and said they were upset. Don't you think that makes their position pretty clear? You don't have to say to someone, “I don't want you to support this candidate because of X, Y, and Z.” The implied threat is there when it's a person in a position of power like a consul general.
Mayor of Brampton, As an Individual
I think you just made a statement. Was there a question there too?
Mayor of Brampton, As an Individual
I think relationships with consuls general are important for diaspora communities because of the ability to quickly access visas to visit their home countries.
Liberal
Jennifer O'Connell Liberal Pickering—Uxbridge, ON
Would the importance be the implied threat that, if a consul general is unhappy and upset, supporting a candidate who has made the Indian government upset could implicate or affect a visa application?
Mayor of Brampton, As an Individual
I think that's something that some members of the community would be concerned about.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Iqwinder Gaheer
Thank you, Ms. O'Connell.
Mr. Fortin, go ahead. You have two and a half minutes.
Bloc
Rhéal Fortin Bloc Rivière-du-Nord, QC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Mr. Brown, Radio-Canada revealed that the Indian government asked people to stop supporting you, to not sell membership cards for you and to not invite you to certain events. Basically, it was trying to undermine your campaign.
Let's say all of that were true. Let's say Indian officials made sure that members of the Indian community or its supporters would not donate to your campaign, meaning you had less funding for your leadership bid. Would you call it foreign interference?
Mayor of Brampton, As an Individual
If that were the case, then certainly that would be foreign interference.
Bloc
Rhéal Fortin Bloc Rivière-du-Nord, QC
All right.
Let's say there was some sort of agreement between foreign states—whether it's the Indian government, the Russian government or the U.S. government, whoever—to get them to ask their citizens in Canada to not donate to Patrick Brown's campaign. Would that also constitute foreign interference in your campaign?
Mayor of Brampton, As an Individual
If a foreign government is telling people not to donate to or support a campaign, that would meet the level of foreign intervention, but you're getting into hypotheticals.
Bloc
Rhéal Fortin Bloc Rivière-du-Nord, QC
Okay.
Conversely, let's say they encouraged everyone to donate to Patrick Brown's campaign so he could beat Mr. Poilievre in the leadership race. Would that constitute foreign interference?
Mayor of Brampton, As an Individual
A foreign government asking to donate to a campaign in Canada would be foreign interference.
Bloc
Rhéal Fortin Bloc Rivière-du-Nord, QC
When you ask other mayors to contribute funding to the court challenge of Bill 21 in Quebec, which is not Ontario, by your own admission, aren't you interfering in a matter that doesn't concern you?
Mayor of Brampton, As an Individual
It does concern me because we're in the same country. We're in the same legal system. Our precedents affect each other.