Public Safety Committee on Dec. 5th, 2024

I think that looking at ways to safeguard our democracy is important. There is foreign interference that occurs. I would say that it's not limited to India, but India is obviously a very high topic because of the extrajudicial killing in Surrey. For a lot of countries, the ability to have a working relationship with a consular office is important. If you want to go back home and you need a visa, having a productive relationship is important.

I look at other instances, such as Sri Lanka. We're building a Tamil genocide memorial in Brampton, and we've been recipients of active intervention, opposition, obstruction and protests coordinated by the Sri Lanka High Commission. There's an example where we believe that our democratic efforts, adopted by the entire council, were being challenged and subverted by a foreign government.

I don't think it's limited to India, but I do think diasporic communities are struggling with some of the activity of foreign consular offices. I was reading a newspaper article recently that said an educational session was done in Ottawa recently with foreign diplomats on what is appropriate, what is inappropriate and what crosses the line. I think that's healthy. Maybe some of those standards can be set by this committee to help clarify what veers into the political and what veers into intimidation of the community in Canada.

Conservative

Dane Lloyd Conservative Sturgeon River—Parkland, AB

I really appreciate that good feedback, Mayor Brown.

I think I only have a little time left, so I'll note you mentioned that there have been significant tensions in your community in the wake of the allegations of the extrajudicial killing. We know that these tensions are in diverse communities across Canada. What do you think the federal government can do to try to reduce those tensions and bring harmony to our communities?

Mayor of Brampton, As an Individual

What the Government of Canada can do is make sure that every community knows they're safe in Canada and that if there is intimidation or violence against any faith group, we're not going to stand for it in this country. If there's any intelligence that says the safety of any individuals or any leaders of any community is at threat, they need to be protected.

The fact that we saw the killing in Surrey is a failure of public safety in Canada. He was not protected. I know individuals in Peel who have also been given a duty to warn. That's alarming. I hope steps are being taken by the RCMP, Public Safety and CSIS to make sure that individuals are protected in this country.

The reminder is to double down on those efforts to make sure that those in Canada are safe from foreign intimidation, harassment or violence.

Conservative

Dane Lloyd Conservative Sturgeon River—Parkland, AB

In my last second or two, Mayor Brown, can you tell me if you believe that foreign intervention actors have felt emboldened over the past few years under the Liberal government to take actions in Canada?

Mayor of Brampton, As an Individual

I would hope that in the last year, it's the opposite. I would hope that because the activities were exposed, they're not emboldened.

I don't get intelligence shared by the Government of Canada, but I know that on a local level with the Peel police, given that it's been brought into the open, there's a level of relief by some that it's no longer done behind the curtain. For some of the people who had real fears, it's more in the public now.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Iqwinder Gaheer

Thank you.

We'll go to Ms. O'Connell for five minutes.

Liberal

Jennifer O'Connell Liberal Pickering—Uxbridge, ON

Thank you, Chair.

Thank you, Mayor Brown, for attending.

I want to follow up on something you said that I found quite interesting. You said that you were involved in a conference call where MP Rempel Garner—and this was in answer to Mr. MacGregor's question—raised the concern, which also came from the consul general, that they were not comfortable with you using the term “Sikh nation”.

Are you suggesting, or is it your understanding from that call, that someone spoke to MP Rempel Garner and raised the consul general's concern about the language you used during the campaign?

Mayor of Brampton, As an Individual

First of all, I don't believe that's the reason she left the campaign, but I believe that's what the article—

Liberal

Jennifer O'Connell Liberal Pickering—Uxbridge, ON

I'm sorry. I didn't ask that. I asked about the details of the conference call and your answer to Mr. MacGregor about being informed by your campaign team that there were concerns from the consul general, raised by MP Rempel Garner, about not using the term “Sikh nation”.

Can you please confirm that this is what was discussed on your conference call?

Mayor of Brampton, As an Individual

That is correct. Do you want me to expand further?

Liberal

Jennifer O'Connell Liberal Pickering—Uxbridge, ON

Sure. Can you tell me the details of who asked MP Rempel Garner to raise the subject of the language you were using?

Mayor of Brampton, As an Individual

The concern raised was that I had used the term “Sikh nation” on a number of occasions. The consul general had expressed directly to MP Rempel Garner that it was something they didn't agree with and that it could be viewed in nationalistic terms towards the Sikh community.

On the conference call, I had a deputy national campaign manager, Jaskaran Sandhu, whom we assigned to talk to Michelle about it after the conference call. What was agreed upon was that I wouldn't use the words “Sikh nation”; I'd use the words “Sikh kaum”—

Liberal

Jennifer O'Connell Liberal Pickering—Uxbridge, ON

I'm sorry. I have limited time.

Do you think it's appropriate for a foreign government to send a message to a sitting MP that you should be changing language because it's not welcomed by that foreign nation? Do you think that's an appropriate election activity by a foreign government?

Do you regret accepting the advice to change your language not based on your campaign or constituent feedback, but because the consul general asked MP Rempel Garner to tell you they did not appreciate that language? Do you think that's acceptable in a Canadian election race?

Mayor of Brampton, As an Individual

I didn't get the chance to finish what I was saying before.

What we changed it to was “Sikh kaum”, which is the Punjabi word for nation. It was—

Liberal

Jennifer O'Connell Liberal Pickering—Uxbridge, ON

Thank you, but my question was whether you think it's appropriate for a foreign government to ask a sitting MP to speak as a co-chair on a leadership race and raise objections to your campaign not based on constituents' opinions, but on a foreign government's opinion.

I think that pretty clearly constitutes foreign interference. The outcome of foreign interference doesn't matter; it's about the intention of a foreign government influencing actions in Canadian elections.

Do you think that was an appropriate action for a foreign government to take in a Canadian election?

Mayor of Brampton, As an Individual

I certainly think that consuls general in India have been more robust in their opinions than some of us would be comfortable with.

Liberal

Jennifer O'Connell Liberal Pickering—Uxbridge, ON

Thank you. I'm glad you acknowledge that it's not something you're comfortable with.

You mentioned earlier that the Indian government, through the consul general, expressed displeasure previously with your positions on things. How specifically did they express displeasure? Did they, as articles are reporting, suggest that they were going to speak to volunteers about not signing up voters for you? Did they uninvite you from attending events? Did they suggest that they would provide funds and campaign support to other campaigns? How exactly did they show displeasure?

Mayor of Brampton, As an Individual

I've never had a direct threat like that from the Indian government. It's never been something as direct as saying they're going to raise funds for someone else or tell people to not sign up memberships.

On previous occasions when there were positions I took that the Government of India didn't support, I heard directly from the consul general that—

Liberal

Jennifer O'Connell Liberal Pickering—Uxbridge, ON

Don't you think, as an elected member, the only feedback you should be hearing is from the people who actually elected you?

Mayor of Brampton, As an Individual

The greatest determination for me is what is in the best interests of my residents. I do what is in their best interests and fight for what is in their best interests.

It is not unusual in Canada to have consuls general from multiple nations who are very vocal in their advocacy.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Iqwinder Gaheer

Thank you, Ms. O'Connell. We'll come back to you.

Mr. Fortin, you may go ahead. You have two and a half minutes.

December 5th, 2024 / 4:35 p.m.

Bloc

Rhéal Fortin Bloc Rivière-du-Nord, QC

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I'm going to continue along the same lines, Mr. Brown.

Did anyone else on your team relay messages to you that came from the Indian government or consul general?

Mayor of Brampton, As an Individual

That would probably be the only example of when we had a discussion about a concern directly from the consul general. Concerns that were raised with me were more policy-based and on positions that I had taken.