Public Safety Committee on Dec. 10th, 2024

[The Chair, Liberal, Iqwinder Gaheer]

I call this meeting to order.

Welcome to meeting 135 of the House of Commons Standing Committee on Public Safety and National Security.

Today's meeting is taking place in a hybrid format. I'd like to remind participants of the following points. Please wait until I recognize you by name before speaking. All comments should be addressed through the chair. Members, please raise your hand if you wish to speak, whether participating in person or via Zoom. The clerk and I will manage the speaking order as best we can.

Ms. O'Connell.

[Jennifer O'Connell, Liberal, Pickering—Uxbridge, ON]

Thank you, Chair.

I'd like to move that we resume debate on my motion of December 5 in relation to the study of Indian interference.

[The Chair, Liberal, Iqwinder Gaheer]

The motion is moved.

Ms. O'Connell, do you want to speak to it?

[Jennifer O'Connell, Liberal, Pickering—Uxbridge, ON]

Yes, please. Thank you, Chair.

This is in continuation of where we left off on Thursday. Based on the testimony provided by Mayor Patrick Brown, he indicated that MP Rempel Garner had, in fact, received a phone call from the consul general of India. He described it as “an angry phone call”. From there, she had a 45-minute debrief with two of his campaign staff, Mr. Jaskaran Sandhu and Mr. Harkirat Singh.

On Thursday, we were debating the invitation of Ms. Michelle Rempel Garner, Mr. Jaskaran Sandhu and Mr. Harkirat Singh to testify at this committee. That is the motion before us. I think it's very clear, based on the testimony, why it's important to speak to them.

Given the fact that we have scheduled on the agenda for later to complete the auto theft study, I don't want to belabour this point. It's where we left off last week. Given that everyone wanted to adjourn the meeting at our six o'clock hour, I think it's only fair to deal with this off the top and then move on with the rest of the agenda.

I'll leave it there, Mr. Chair. Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Iqwinder Gaheer]

Thank you, Ms. O'Connell.

I see that the email is being sent with the motion.

In the meantime, I recognize Mr. Lloyd.

[Dane Lloyd, Conservative, Sturgeon River—Parkland, AB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I believe we have two meetings left on the India study.

[The Chair, Liberal, Iqwinder Gaheer]

We actually never set.... It was a minimum of this many meetings, and we can always add meetings. We haven't spoken on that either yet.

[Dane Lloyd, Conservative, Sturgeon River—Parkland, AB]

Can I raise a point of clarification?

I presume that all the parties or some of the parties have submitted witnesses for this study.

[The Chair, Liberal, Iqwinder Gaheer]

If you mean the Indian foreign interference study, yes, they have.

[Dane Lloyd, Conservative, Sturgeon River—Parkland, AB]

Why do we need a motion for this? We can just submit these people as witnesses. If the Liberal Party wants to submit those as witnesses, then we'll have an opportunity to have them come as witnesses.

[The Chair, Liberal, Iqwinder Gaheer]

Ms. O'Connell.

[Jennifer O'Connell, Liberal, Pickering—Uxbridge, ON]

The deadline to submit witnesses has passed, and this is based on the testimony.

It's a motion before us that is in order. If there's no objection to it, then we should vote and move on to the rest of the agenda.

[The Chair, Liberal, Iqwinder Gaheer]

I'm being told by the clerk that it's flexible. There was a deadline, but it was more just to encourage folks to submit witnesses so that we can have more folks testify.

The motion is on the floor, but I understand your point, Mr. Lloyd; they could be invited.

Ms. Dancho.

[Raquel Dancho, Conservative, Kildonan—St. Paul, MB]

I'm just reviewing this. These two folks, Mr. Sandhu and Mr. Singh, were mentioned by Mr. Brown. I'm not clear why we would be.... I assume, based on Liberal patterns, that they're going to ask them to come and then force them to come. It just seems to be that that's how we've proceeded.

It's just odd because we started this study with a very serious matter. It's alleged that the Indian government was involved in a murder and possible additional attempted murders or other extortion efforts and things like that, very serious matters.

Now it seems that this study has turned into some sort of hunt for anyone who knows Mr. Patrick Brown. It just seems that it's really devaluing the core focus of this study, which was really to review the impact, the causes and the potential solutions for the fact that a foreign government is allegedly involved in murders of Canadian citizens on Canadian soil. This does seem like a very far departure from that, and I don't see how this would serve the overall purpose of looking to prevent future murders in this country by foreign governments, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Iqwinder Gaheer]

Thank you, Ms. Dancho.

I think the end result is the same, whether we pass it through a motion or just have the clerk invite the witnesses.

One of the witnesses we can't force to appear, and we haven't even seen if the other two witnesses are willing to come or not. I'm just wondering if there's a consensus in the committee to just invite them, or do we stick with the motion?

[Jennifer O'Connell, Liberal, Pickering—Uxbridge, ON]

Stick with the motion.

[The Chair, Liberal, Iqwinder Gaheer]

We're sticking to the motion.

Ms. Dancho.

[Raquel Dancho, Conservative, Kildonan—St. Paul, MB]

I move to adjourn debate on this, so that we can just get past this already.

[The Chair, Liberal, Iqwinder Gaheer]

A motion to adjourn debate has been brought forward. We have to proceed to a vote.

[Jennifer O'Connell, Liberal, Pickering—Uxbridge, ON]

Just as a clarification, in that case we don't get to vote on the substance of this motion.

[The Chair, Liberal, Iqwinder Gaheer]

Exactly.

[Jennifer O'Connell, Liberal, Pickering—Uxbridge, ON]

Thank you.

I will ask for a recorded vote.

(Motion negatived: nays 7; yeas 4)

[The Chair, Liberal, Iqwinder Gaheer]

The nays have it. The motion remains on the floor.

If there are no more hands, maybe we'll proceed to a vote on the motion to resume debate.

[Jennifer O'Connell, Liberal, Pickering—Uxbridge, ON]

I'll ask for a recorded vote.

[The Chair, Liberal, Iqwinder Gaheer]

We'll have a recorded vote.

(Motion agreed to: yeas 7; nays 4)

We're resuming debate on the motion.

I see Ms. O'Connell's hand is up.