Evidence of meeting #14 for Public Safety and National Security in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was protest.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Steve Bell  Interim Chief, Ottawa Police Service
Thomas Carrique  Ontario Provincial Police

11 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Jim Carr

I call this meeting to order.

Good morning, everyone. Welcome to meeting number 14 of the House of Commons Standing Committee on Public Safety and National Security.

We will start by acknowledging that we are meeting on the traditional unceded territory of the Algonquin people.

Today’s meeting is taking place in a hybrid format, pursuant to the House order of November 25, 2021.

Colleagues, I don't have to read about all of the public orders and the way that we keep our distance. We wear masks when we are not speaking. Staff wear masks at all times, please.

We will run the meeting as efficiently as we can. Members will be participating virtually and they may speak in the official language of their choice. Interpretation services are available for the meeting. You have the choice, at the bottom of your screen, of floor, English, or French. If interpretation is lost, please inform me immediately and we will set it right.

When speaking, please speak slowly and clearly. Should any technical challenges arise, please advise me.

Pursuant to Standing Order 108(2) and the motion adopted by the committee on Tuesday, February 15, 2022, the committee is resuming its study of the occupation of Ottawa and the federal government’s response to convoy blockades.

With us today by video conference, from the Ontario Provincial Police, are Commissioner Thomas Carrique, Deputy Commissioner Chris Harkins, and Chief Superintendent Carson Pardy. From the Ottawa Police Service we have Steve Bell, interim chief, and Trish Ferguson, acting deputy chief. Welcome to all of you.

Up to five minutes will be given for opening remarks, after which we will proceed with rounds of questions.

Interim Chief Bell, I now invite you to make opening remarks of up to five minutes. I have a fancy-dancy sign that says 30 seconds, which will be your indication of how much time is left. People who know me know all too clearly that I'm a stickler for starting and ending on time.

Chief Bell, the floor is yours. Please proceed.

11 a.m.

Steve Bell Interim Chief, Ottawa Police Service

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair. I share your passion for well-run meetings, so thank you for that.

Distinguished members of the committee, I'm pleased to be given this opportunity to meet with you today.

Joining me today is Deputy Chief Trish Ferguson, who was the operational lead for the successful resolution of the illegal protest. We're here today to answer questions about the illegal protest that occurred in Ottawa between January 28, 2022 and February 20, 2022.

As the police service of jurisdiction in the nation's capital, our members are well-practiced in keeping the peace during demonstrations.

Every year, hundreds of protests occur in our capital. Our officers are trained to maintain the safety of both the demonstrators and the public at large. The vast majority of these protests are peaceful and lawful, and protesters return home when their point has been made.

This unlawful protest was unprecedented. The protesters brought thousands of vehicles to our city with the full intention of disrupting our capital. After they arrived, many chose to stay and they were clear in their words and actions that they meant to do damage to our community.

Our police service received regular reports of intimidating and threatening behaviour towards residents on a daily basis. We had reports of hate crimes being committed and of wilful disregard of police and court orders. The protesters used their vehicles as tools to back up their behaviour, honking their horns and racing dangerously around the streets in the downtown core.

Despite our attempts to negotiate and despite threats of investigation and enforcement, the illegal and disruptive behaviours continued throughout the protest and became elevated on weekends when more protesters arrived.

Our response as a police service, along with our many partners, was to work to safely manage the disruptions, contain the behaviours and negotiate the protesters out. In the early days, we were able to ensure that no serious injuries, deaths or damage to infrastructure were committed, but that's not the standard of policing any resident of our city or any Canadian would expect.

As a police service, we understood quickly that we needed assistance from all levels of government in the form of legislative powers and policing resources if we were to safely remove this unlawful protest from our streets.

It's important that this committee understand and appreciate the negative impacts this behaviour had on our entire community and our businesses, and especially the impacts on our vulnerable, marginalized, indigenous, 2SLGBTQAA+ and racialized communities.

Our Centretown is a diverse, proud and vibrant place. During the protest, we saw clear signs of hate, such as swastikas, anti-government sentiment, leaders posting threatening language on social media and other various forms of social disorder. It shook the community's faith and confidence in the ability of police and government to keep them safe. We have seen the same effects in cities such as Calgary, Windsor and in Coutts, Alberta, where similar protests were held.

Our goal from the outset was always to remove this protest safely. Doing that required careful coordination between all of our policing partners to develop a strategy that would ensure a safe resolution. All three levels of government responded with legislative measures that aided our strategy. I want to thank the City of Ottawa and the Ontario government for the changes brought forward. I also want to thank the federal government for invoking the federal Emergencies Act.

From a policing perspective, the legislation provided the OPS with the ability to prevent people from participating in this unlawful protest; to restrict people from travelling to any area where the unlawful protest was taking place; to secure protected places and critical infrastructure; to create and maintain the secured area to prevent people from violating the act and safely remove people who were attempting to do so; to go after the money funding the protest; and to require third parties to assist us in removing the heavy vehicles that were clogging streets and creating a safety hazard. It was a critical piece of our efforts, but it was only one piece.

Another critical piece was the rallying of police resources from the RCMP, the OPP and police services from across Canada. I want to thank them all for their support.

As you saw, once we had all of those authorities and those resources in place, we were able to implement a methodical police operation between February 17 and February 20 with an integrated command led by the Ottawa Police Service, the Royal Canadian Mounted Police and the Ontario Provincial Police to safely remove the protest.

In total, there were 230 arrests, and 118 people were criminally charged with more than 400 criminal counts. Hundreds of provincial offence notices were issued. Cases are still moving through the courts, and multiple investigations are ongoing.

In a democracy such as Canada, there is no doubt that a discussion and assessment on the appropriateness of the invocation of the Emergencies Act, which provided police broader powers, is important. I am pleased to be here to contribute to that discussion.

I can tell you that police chiefs across the country are watching this discussion because they know that similar situations could occur or are occurring in their jurisdictions. I have spoken to many of them who have sought out advice.

Finally, I want to reiterate my pride in all of the police members who worked on this operation, including the members who came from across Canada to assist us. This was truly a Canadian effort and it showed the vital role that police play in maintaining our democracy and keeping our residents safe.

Deputy Chief Ferguson and I look forward to answering your questions today.

11:05 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Jim Carr

Thank you very much, Interim Chief.

Now I would like to call on Commissioner Thomas Carrique.

Sir, you have five minutes for an opening statement. The floor is yours.

11:05 a.m.

Commissioner Thomas Carrique Ontario Provincial Police

Thank you, Chair.

Good morning Chair, vice-chairs and committee members. I am joined here today by Ontario Provincial Police Deputy Commissioner Chris Harkins and Chief Superintendent Carson Pardy.

Under the Ontario Police Services Act, the OPP has a unique dual mandate to provide frontline policing services to 328 municipalities across the province, as well as to provide assistance and/or specialized support to municipal services upon request.

As it relates to the “freedom convoy” and the associated illegal blockades in the city of Ottawa, the OPP's intelligence bureau commenced reporting to our policing partners on January 13, 2022. As of January 22, daily intelligence reports focused on the convoy headed to Ottawa and the anticipated protest movements across the province. The intelligence reporting was shared with more than 35 Canadian police, law enforcement and security agencies.

As the convoy crossed over the Manitoba-Ontario border and travelled across the province and until it arrived in Ottawa on January 28, OPP officers professionally fulfilled their duties without incident.

In support of the Ottawa Police Service, throughout the occupation an increasing number of OPP officers and specialized resources from various services became engaged, ultimately contributing to an integrated plan and the establishment of a unified command.

Simultaneously, our members responded to many other convoys and demonstrations that consistently and repeatedly emerged in communities across Ontario. These included, but were not limited to, the critical blockage of the Ambassador Bridge, the blockade of Highway 402, multiple other attempts to block Canada-U.S. land border crossings, and demonstrations that posed a risk to the area of the Ontario legislature.

In addition, from day one when the convoy entered Ontario, we were responsive to requests for assistance from other municipal police services. This was a provincial and national emergency that garnered international attention.

In response, the OPP and more than 20 other police services from across the country worked collaboratively to address public order emergencies that were unmatched in recent history. Protests and demonstrations are often complex in nature. The role of the police remains that of protecting the public, upholding the law and keeping the peace.

The province's Critical Infrastructure and Highways regulation, under the Emergency Management and Civil Protection Act, and the federal Emergencies Act were effective supplementary tools needed to help protect critical infrastructure and ensure the continuous and safe delivery of essential goods and services, while at the same time maintaining—or in the case of Ottawa, restoring—peace, order and public security.

As the committee is well aware, in addition to the critical events experienced in Ontario, the illegal Ottawa occupation was accompanied by numerous other high-risk “freedom convoy”-related protests and blockades across Canada. The OPP worked collaboratively with the Ottawa Police Service, the Royal Canada Mounted Police and other policing partners to develop a sustainable integrated operational plan that was informed by best practices from other high-risk critical events, available police resources, and other concurrent and emerging operational requirements in a number of police jurisdictions.

Sufficiently trained public order officers were amassed from throughout Canada and deployed in an integrated, strategic and measured manner, which resulted in the collapse of the occupation. The situation and the associated events simultaneously taking place across Canada required unprecedented national collaboration to prevent injury, preserve life and protect critical infrastructure.

As the commissioner of the Ontario Provincial Police, I am extremely proud of the remarkable professionalism and dedication of the officers deployed to Ottawa and the other high-risk events simultaneously occurring across the province. Despite all the challenges, our officers and those from a multitude of other Canadian police services remained committed to their roles and responsibilities while the entire nation watched live. They represented the entire policing profession with the utmost professionalism, discipline and competence.

Thank you. Meegwetch.

I look forward to answering any questions you may have for the Ontario Provincial Police.

11:10 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Jim Carr

Thank you very much, Commissioner. We appreciate your opening remarks.

Colleagues, I'll now open the floor to questioning.

Mr. Lloyd, you are first up for a six-minute round.

11:10 a.m.

Conservative

Dane Lloyd Conservative Sturgeon River—Parkland, AB

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Interim Chief Bell, in Ottawa, during the protest-clearing operation, were any loaded shotguns found in the trucks of protesters?

11:15 a.m.

Interim Chief, Ottawa Police Service

Steve Bell

Mr. Chair, what I can indicate is that throughout the protest we did receive information and intelligence around weapons and the possession of weapons by people who either had attended or intended on attending the occupation.

As a result of the clearing, at no point did we lay any firearms-related charges, yet there are investigations that continue in relation to weapons possession at the occupation.

11:15 a.m.

Conservative

Dane Lloyd Conservative Sturgeon River—Parkland, AB

Yes or no, Interim Chief, were loaded firearms found in the trucks during the protest-clearing operation?

11:15 a.m.

Interim Chief, Ottawa Police Service

Steve Bell

As I indicated, Mr. Chair, there have been no charges laid to date in relation to weapons at the occupation site.

11:15 a.m.

Conservative

Dane Lloyd Conservative Sturgeon River—Parkland, AB

It's a clear question, Interim Chief. Were weapons found? Were loaded firearms found, yes or no?

11:15 a.m.

Interim Chief, Ottawa Police Service

Steve Bell

No, not relating to any charges to this point.

11:15 a.m.

Conservative

Dane Lloyd Conservative Sturgeon River—Parkland, AB

Thank you, Chief. That's very illuminating.

On March 19, this past Saturday, a reporter, Justin Ling, wrote in the Toronto Star that police sources indicated that loaded shotguns were found in trucks at the Ottawa protest.

Is this false information?

11:15 a.m.

Interim Chief, Ottawa Police Service

Steve Bell

I'm unfamiliar with the quote you're referring to, but as I indicated before, we received intelligence information, we continue criminal investigations, and no charges have been laid to date in relation to firearms.

11:15 a.m.

Conservative

Dane Lloyd Conservative Sturgeon River—Parkland, AB

But the article claims that a police source told the journalist that loaded shotguns were found in trucks during the protest-clearing operation. You have said to this committee that is in fact not the case, that loaded shotguns were not found in trucks during the protest-clearing operation.

Is that the case, Interim Chief?

11:15 a.m.

Interim Chief, Ottawa Police Service

Steve Bell

As I indicated, we received intelligence information. I'm unclear around the source of information that was received through that article or the corroboration around it. We have not laid any charges—

11:15 a.m.

Conservative

Dane Lloyd Conservative Sturgeon River—Parkland, AB

Interim Chief, can you clarify, speaking on the record, not off the record, that loaded shotguns were not found in the vehicles during the protest operation? Can you confirm that?

11:15 a.m.

Interim Chief, Ottawa Police Service

Steve Bell

Consistent with my answer previously, yes. I can confirm that to date no charges have been laid.

11:15 a.m.

Conservative

Dane Lloyd Conservative Sturgeon River—Parkland, AB

If there had been firearms found, would the government have been made aware of that, as far as you know? Would the cabinet have been made aware of that if there had been firearms found?

11:15 a.m.

Interim Chief, Ottawa Police Service

Steve Bell

Our normal course of action would be that we would conduct an investigation and charges would be laid. As a result of those charges, there would be public notifications of those charges. We wouldn't specifically notify any level of government as to the course or the conclusion of any investigation.

11:15 a.m.

Conservative

Dane Lloyd Conservative Sturgeon River—Parkland, AB

But they would have been immediately aware if you had found firearms. Correct?

11:15 a.m.

Interim Chief, Ottawa Police Service

Steve Bell

There would have been public notifications made.

11:15 a.m.

Conservative

Dane Lloyd Conservative Sturgeon River—Parkland, AB

We had a cabinet minister, the Minister of Crown Indigenous Relations, Marc Miller, retweet that article from Justin Ling from the Toronto Star claiming that there were loaded shotguns found in trucks. This is misinformation, Chief.

I submit to the committee, this is misinformation being spread by a journalist and misinformation being spread by a member of this government. I'll close my remarks and give my time to Mr. Shipley.

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, Interim Chief.

11:15 a.m.

Conservative

Doug Shipley Conservative Barrie—Springwater—Oro-Medonte, ON

Thank you, Chair.

First of all, I'd like to thank all the witnesses who are here with us today. I witnessed first-hand what went on here in Ottawa. Both your services, in very trying times—I spoke to many of the officers out there—handled themselves in a very professional manner.

I'd first like to direct a couple of my questions to Commissioner Carrique.

Hello, Commissioner Carrique. I understand we have some mutual acquaintances.

I had the opportunity to speak to two previous commissioners of the OPP as this was going on, trying to get some information. One of them told me an interesting statement, which is that you will never find a police service that would turn down additional powers.

Would you agree with that statement, Commissioner?

11:15 a.m.

Commr Thomas Carrique

Thank you.

Through you, Mr. Chair, I would like to know the context of the statement. I don't know that we are in a position to turn down additional powers. We utilize the laws that are provided to us. We do so in a judicious manner consistent with the Charter of Rights and Freedoms.

11:15 a.m.

Conservative

Doug Shipley Conservative Barrie—Springwater—Oro-Medonte, ON

Thank you for that.

I'm not giving you all the details, so I know I kind of put you on the spot. It was obviously around the emergency measures act and how that could help some services.

Also, through discussions with those two past commissioners, they both felt that the emergency measures act was not required. Could you elaborate on that? Do you agree with your predecessors on this?