Public Safety Committee on March 24th, 2022

[Commr Thomas Carrique]

The Emergencies Act was an extremely valuable tool. This was identified as a threat to national security. We were able to utilize a number of the powers in the Emergencies Act: specifically, prohibiting people from attending designated areas; limiting the presence of children, which created a significant public safety risk; compelling service providers to assist with the removal of vehicles that required heavy tows and providing indemnification for those service providers; and the freezing of accounts.

These tools made our operation very effective, and in the absence of having those tools, we could not have been as effective as we were.

[The Chair, Liberal, Jim Carr]

Thank you very much.

I would know like to invite Mr. Noormohamed for six minutes of questioning.

Sir, we'll go over to you.

[Taleeb Noormohamed, Liberal, Vancouver Granville, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I'd like to thank both of you for being with us today.

I'd like to start with Interim Chief Bell.

Thank you so much for your opening comments. I think they were important for all of us to hear.

I just want to clarify something that was asked of you. I know my colleague Mr. Lloyd is not here, but I think it's important for the record.

To be clear, you said there have been no charges laid to date related to firearms. Is it possible that charges could still be laid related to firearms?

[Steve Bell]

We don't specifically comment on the progress of ongoing investigations. As I indicated in the answer, information and intelligence was received prior to the demobilization of the demonstration around the existence of firearms within the footprint. Investigations relating to weapons offences continue. Upon the completion of them, we'll be able to provide information if there are charges ultimately laid. To date, there have been no firearms-related charges laid in relation to our takedown.

[Taleeb Noormohamed, Liberal, Vancouver Granville, BC]

Thank you.

There has been, as you know, a lot of interest across Canada in what happened in Ottawa. Many of us receive emails from people with information about how they believe things went down in Ottawa.

If you'd indulge me, I have a few questions. I want to ask you just to clarify things you said in your opening statement for folks across the country, so there isn't misinformation about what happened in Ottawa.

Would you classify what happened in Ottawa as a peaceful unobstructive protest?

[Steve Bell]

Mr. Chair, as I indicated in my statement, no, I wouldn't. As the protest demonstration unfolded, we quickly identified it as an illegal occupation of our streets. Beyond our own observations of it, that was by far and large the sentiment we were receiving from our community: that the activities ongoing within the streets were extremely disruptive and made them fear for their own safety within their community.

So, no, I do not believe this was a lawful demonstration within our streets, and for those reasons we took the course of action we did to ultimately remove them.

[Taleeb Noormohamed, Liberal, Vancouver Granville, BC]

Thank you.

Interim Chief, just to clarify again for folks who may not have heard your statement, were there multiple reports of allegations of hate crimes?

[Steve Bell]

The existence of undesirable, intolerable criminal behaviour that the residents of our city were subjected to is well documented through the course of our investigations and through the course of the unfolding of our dismantling of the occupation.

What I can tell you is that all through the occupation, we had conversations with our community where they demonstrated and identified and reported incidents of hate-based crimes and incidents that they were experiencing within their streets. We continue to investigate those incidents. We continue to look at the community healing and reparation that we know needs to go on within our community based on the intolerable circumstances and behaviours they were subjected to.

[Taleeb Noormohamed, Liberal, Vancouver Granville, BC]

Thank you.

There were reports of visible minorities, of indigenous people, of women, of vulnerable communities being harassed, being made to feel unsafe, and they were told not to worry because this was a peaceful protest.

Do you believe they had reason to worry?

[Steve Bell]

Mr. Chair, I think it's a very interesting question, and I don't think I'm the one properly situated to answer it.

What I can tell you is that the community members we spoke with experienced that. They felt unsafe in their communities. They were terrorized by activity that occurred in interactions with them relating to people who were present in and around the occupation. They experienced incidents of hate, biased crimes and biased incidents in their interactions. Their very real, very relevant experiences were exactly that; they felt unsafe within their own communities.

[Taleeb Noormohamed, Liberal, Vancouver Granville, BC]

Interim Chief, as you reflect on what was going on and having heard from your community, how did you feel when you saw political leaders encouraging or supporting the blockade and defending the actions of those who were occupying your city?

[Steve Bell]

Mr. Chair, my focus throughout this was to work with my policing partners.

I would like to publicly thank Commissioner Carrique and Commissioner Lucki for the amazing support they provided throughout this. When it came to our interactions with various levels of government, our sole focus was identifying how we could access the resources and supports we needed and how we could leverage adequate tools, including the legislative changes like those in the Emergencies Act, which we ultimately received. When it came to political and government operations, those were the only things we focused on.

[Taleeb Noormohamed, Liberal, Vancouver Granville, BC]

We have a very short amount of time left. I'm going to ask you two very quick questions and I'd really appreciate your answers. A lot of folks said that the protest became illegal only after the Emergencies Act was invoked. Could you share your perspective on that very quickly? Could you also share whether in fact laws and statutes were broken prior to the Emergencies Act being invoked?

Could you also confirm or deny that “a large number of—”

[The Chair, Liberal, Jim Carr]

I'm sorry, but he's going to have only 10 seconds to answer both.

[Taleeb Noormohamed, Liberal, Vancouver Granville, BC]

Okay.

Could you confirm your perspective on whether the Emergencies Act was needed or not?

[The Chair, Liberal, Jim Carr]

Time's up. Sorry.

I'll give you 10 seconds to answer, Interim Chief.

[Steve Bell]

That's a challenge.

The unlawful activity progressed throughout the course of the occupation; that is, from the time people did not leave what could have been a lawful demonstration to, ultimately, our takedown, unlawful activity was observed, documented and prosecuted.

[The Chair, Liberal, Jim Carr]

Thank you very much.

I'll now call on Ms. Michaud to begin her six-minute question slot.

The floor is yours.

[Kristina Michaud, Bloc, Avignon—La Mitis—Matane—Matapédia, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I thank the witnesses for being here with us today. We appreciate it; we were looking forward to hearing their testimony.

I would like to take this opportunity to thank the Ottawa Police Service for its excellent work. I also want to thank the officers, who managed to implement a large-scale operation to remove the protesters who had set up on Parliament Hill for several weeks.

That said, the first question that comes to my mind is this: why did this operation not take place earlier? Why did it take so much time to implement it?

I can't help but draw a parallel with what happened in Quebec City. As soon as they got the information that people were heading to the National Assembly in Quebec City, the mayor of the city and the premier of the province issued warnings. They said that they would not tolerate any excesses. Police blocked access to the Parliament. There were police officers from the Sûreté du Québec, or SQ, and from the city's police force just about everywhere near the National Assembly and in the surrounding streets. There were even tow trucks on site.

That said, I wonder about the Ottawa Police Service's preparation.

At what point, Mr. Bell, did you know that people were heading to Parliament Hill?

How did you prepare? How did you work with other police services, with levels of government and with the City of Ottawa?

How did you prepare for this convoy that was clearly headed for downtown Ottawa?

[Steve Bell]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

One of the things that I think are really important to highlight is that as the police of jurisdiction in Ottawa, on a yearly basis we deal with hundreds of demonstrations. In the seat of the Parliament for the nation, as the police of jurisdiction in the nation's capital, we do that. That is what we do. On a daily basis, we manage, support, liaise and work with protesters and demonstrators in our jurisdiction so they can engage in their lawful right to have their voices heard.

This circumstance was unprecedented. We'd never seen it previously. On previous occasions within the six months prior to this, several demonstrations involved vehicles attending our jurisdiction to have their voices heard.

All of the past activity consisted of people attending, having their voices heard, as is their constitutional right, and then leaving. We prepare, support and work with protesters to look at how we can best manage their safety and the safety of the community.

What I can tell you is that as this built, as this moved across the country and as it ultimately settled down into our jurisdiction—ultimately occupying our streets—this grew to be a very different circumstance from any other protest or demonstration that we had managed in the past. The very outcome of it identifies how different it was.

Last year, during protests here, there were fewer than five arrests associated with demonstrations and demonstration activity. In this protest, we had 280 arrests that resulted in hundreds and hundreds of criminal charges. Those circumstances did not exist prior to this demonstration occupying our streets.

Since this has occurred—

[Kristina Michaud, Bloc, Avignon—La Mitis—Matane—Matapédia, QC]

I'm sorry to interrupt you, Mr. Bell. As I don't have much time, I'd like to go back to the main question.

You said in your opening remarks that the intent of the protesters was clearly to disrupt public order and to disrupt the downtown area. People were displaying symbols of hate. You're saying that this is something you'd never seen before.

Every week, people who want to be heard come and protest in front of Parliament. However, the ones we're talking about clearly intended to stay. They were telling the media that they would not leave until they got what they wanted. We could see that they had the intention of going a little further.

I have the impression that at some point, the scale of the situation became unprecedented. Around the 11th or 12th day, an Ottawa Police Service employee wrote a letter to Mr. Trudeau and to the mayor of the city, Mr. Watson, asking for 1,800 more officers. These additional resources could have allowed you to act more quickly.

How did you prepare yourselves?

When you asked for help, were you heard?

[Steve Bell]

I think you've identified scope and scale, which are very important factors that play in this. The original intelligence we had identified a much smaller footprint for the people who were what I would call motivated to stay for longer periods of time. What ultimately ended up on our streets in terms of scope and scale—geographical footprint—was not consistent with what we believe was intended to occur.

Beyond that, the activities engaged in by the protesters were not what we believed would occur and were not consistent with previous demonstrations that had occurred in our streets. The hate, the disruptive behaviour, the intimidating behaviour and the noise pollution that terrorized our communities—24 hours a day, seven days a week—were nothing like what had occurred before.

You mentioned the preparations by other jurisdictions. I can tell you that through conversations with many other chiefs of police, which are ongoing, much has been learned from what occurred in Ottawa.

Chief Ramer from Toronto clearly indicated—

[The Chair, Liberal, Jim Carr]

Thank you very much. I'm sorry, Interim Chief, but we're out of time on that block.

I'd like to turn now to Mr. MacGregor.

Sir, you have six minutes. The floor is yours.

[Alistair MacGregor, NDP, Cowichan—Malahat—Langford, BC]

Thank you so much, Chair.

Chief Bell, I'm going to continue with you. Your opening remarks quite skilfully and completely deconstructed the narrative that this was a peaceful protest. I appreciate your providing Ottawa Police Service's perspective on what your officers were dealing with.

I want to go through this timeline. The convoy arrived in Ottawa on the weekend of January 28. On February 6, Ottawa declared a local state of emergency, and on February 11, the Province of Ontario followed suit. Then on February 14, a federal state of emergency was declared. With the declaration of a state of emergency by both Ottawa and the Province of Ontario, there were a lot of questions as to why existing laws were not sufficient to deal with this protest. Why did we get to the point, on February 14, where federal powers were necessary?

Can you please explain to the committee why a local state of emergency and then a provincial state of emergency were not enough to deal with the occupation of Ottawa?

[Steve Bell]

As I indicated in my statement, and as Commissioner Carrique reiterated in his opening statement, there were several factors and several pieces that needed to come into play for us to be able to successfully and safely end the occupation of our streets.

One of those pieces were the injunctions levelled within the city of Ottawa. Another piece was the provincial state of emergency and Emergencies Act that were implemented. The final piece was the Emergencies Act. They all provided different components, legislation and tools for us that were utilized to ultimately and successfully take down the demonstration that was occurring.

Beyond the tools we had, we needed to amass the resources. We did ultimately have just shy of 2,000 police members attend our city streets in order to be able to successfully dismantle this.

We needed not only tools but resources and the plan. That all culminated in the ultimate takedown that you were able to witness.