Public Safety Committee on March 24th, 2022

[Yasir Naqvi, Liberal, Ottawa Centre, ON]

As you mentioned, we get protests often around the parliamentary precinct. Have we in the past for various protests allowed cranes to be mounted right in front of Parliament Hill?

[Steve Bell]

I'm sorry, Mr. Chair, but if you mean specifically whether we allow cranes and we manage the access to that, then, yes, absolutely, that is one of the functions of the Ottawa Police Service.

[Yasir Naqvi, Liberal, Ottawa Centre, ON]

But we don't allow those types of equipment, as part of a protest, to be stationed on Wellington Street?

[Steve Bell]

Mr. Chair, it depends on the context of the protest. We, as a police service, attempt to facilitate people's lawful right to have their voices heard. We have facilitated that ability for many different communities in different ways in the past.

Last summer, we had a farmers protest in which many dozens of tractors occupied the same area. In the past we have had trucking association demonstrations, during which vehicles have come and parked in that area, driven around different areas, gotten their message across and then ultimately left the jurisdiction, as is the course of a normal protest.

[Yasir Naqvi, Liberal, Ottawa Centre, ON]

Chief Bell, I've seen a lot of those protests as well, and it was highly unusual to see a crane right in front of the Privy Council Office and the Prime Minister's office.

Did these protesters have a permit to hold a protest at Parliament Hill?

[Steve Bell]

As the police of jurisdiction for Ottawa, we do not provide permits for people to protest within the parliamentary precinct. That's not within our area of jurisdiction. We are able—not ourselves but through our city partners—to issue permits for demonstrations and protests that occur within our city. I can tell you that as a result of the ongoing pandemic, those permits have been suspended, so no permit has been issued for any protest within the time span of the pandemic because protests have not been sanctioned by the city.

[Yasir Naqvi, Liberal, Ottawa Centre, ON]

Thank you.

The protest started around January 28. After the first weekend, around February 1 or 2, the Tuesday or Wednesday, I recall seeing a news release from Ottawa police that clearly said there were about 200 to 250 protesters with a couple hundred vehicles.

As you stated, a few laws were being broken, so why didn't the Ottawa police at that time move in and enforce the existing laws at their disposal to remove the occupiers?

[Steve Bell]

As I indicated before, I think it's important to understand the scope, scale and magnitude of the operation we undertook.

I understand that people have witnessed and observed how many police officers it took to come here, the amendments of powers that we needed in order to be able to create a safe environment to begin that operation. That took time as it moved through....

The numbers of people involved in the protest site fluctuated, but the number of vehicles did not dramatically fluctuate. The vehicles were an impediment to us—

[The Chair, Liberal, Jim Carr]

You have 10 seconds, Chief.

[Steve Bell]

—and a concern and something that was different for us in dealing with....

[Yasir Naqvi, Liberal, Ottawa Centre, ON]

But, Chief, in the eventual operation, you removed vehicles and—

[The Chair, Liberal, Jim Carr]

I'm sorry, but we're out of time.

Mr. Naqvi, you're out of time, sir. We have to move on.

We will move to Ms. Michaud.

You have all of two and a half minutes. Make good use of it.

[Kristina Michaud, Bloc, Avignon—La Mitis—Matane—Matapédia, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I will pick up the conversation where I left off earlier with Mr. Bell.

Mr. Bell, you said that the other police services, such as in Quebec City, were perhaps somewhat better prepared because they took note of what happened here in Ottawa. They were obviously better prepared, and events made that clear.

I'm a little more interested in the outcome of the crisis. In Ottawa, we apparently needed the Emergencies Act to bring the crisis to an end, but that is not what happened in Quebec City, because protesters were not given time to dig in.

In Windsor, at the Ambassador Bridge, protesters did have time to dig in, but it was possible to dislodge them and dismantle the blockade without applying the Emergencies Act.

I'll ask you again the question I asked earlier. Prior to the use of the Emergencies Act, you had asked for reinforcements, for additional officers to be sent to you. If you had received these reinforcements, do you think that would have tipped the scales?

[Steve Bell]

Mr. Chair, as I indicated, the pieces that we needed to come together needed to come together. They ultimately came together, and that allowed for our dismantling of the operation. Those pieces included the amassing of the resources and the tools we needed to create the environment we could undertake to ultimately dismantle the operation.

Those are the timelines that we've identified, and those are the timelines that I've spoken about over the course of these questions.

[Kristina Michaud, Bloc, Avignon—La Mitis—Matane—Matapédia, QC]

I have the impression that these tools and resources could have been available to you already, and that it was not the Emergencies Act that enabled their use.

When a car obstructs a public road, you can write a ticket, you can have it towed. You can set up physical barriers, you can block off streets to prevent cars from moving in. These are all powers you already had.

Why didn't you use them earlier?

I think there was a change in attitude once the Emergencies Act was invoked. Before that, officers were supervising protesters and monitoring the protest as if it were normal. Clearly, it was not; it was an occupation.

Before the Emergencies Act was applied, we didn't see officers trying to remove the protesters. Why was there no attempt to remove them before, even if there was a slight lack of resources? Clearly, the tools were already available to you.

[Steve Bell]

The emergency measures act—

[The Chair, Liberal, Jim Carr]

I'm sorry, but we're out of time.

However, I'm going to give you 10 seconds to answer that, please.

[Steve Bell]

The emergencies measures act specifically provided us with authorities to utilize those officers who attended. It specifically provided us with authorities to exclude vehicles and pedestrians from the area, authorities that we did not have prior to it being invoked.

[The Chair, Liberal, Jim Carr]

Thank you very much.

Mr. MacGregor, we'll go over to you for two and a half minutes.

[Alistair MacGregor, NDP, Cowichan—Malahat—Langford, BC]

Thank you, Chair.

Chief Bell, the integrated terrorism assessment centre, in the week before the convoy arrived in Ottawa, provided intelligence assessments that concluded that violent extremist groups were deeply involved in the protest movement. Then we had a convoy—with that assessment—arriving in our nation's capital, setting up on Wellington Street right beside the Prime Minister's office, right beside the seat of our democracy.

How did those assessments inform police behaviour? That should have put you on high alert. Even if what turned out afterwards was far from the assessment, that assessment alone should have put your police officers on high alert that potentially something could happen in a very bad way.

[Steve Bell]

What I can say is that we were on high alert as an organization, and we thank our partners from the OPP and the RCMP who helped us to actively gather intelligence throughout the buildup to this and all the way throughout the occupation and ultimate takedown.

We are actively now engaged in the reviews that identify the information we had, the courses that were taken and how we can learn in order to be able to make sure something like this does not occur again.

What I can tell you is that the planning we did was exactly in line with protest planning that had been done in the past. What we saw in front of us was an extremely unprecedented occupation.

[Alistair MacGregor, NDP, Cowichan—Malahat—Langford, BC]

Chief Bell, at the time, though, did you feel that was a national security threat? When you received those assessments, did your police officers feel that was a viable national security threat?

[Steve Bell]

As the intelligence experts we have are with us, I am going to turn this question over to Commissioner Carrique. He and his organization were principal in gathering that intelligence.

Commissioner Carrique.

[Commr Thomas Carrique]

Thank you, Chief Bell.

Through you, Mr. Chair, we did identify it as a threat to national security, through the provincial operations intelligence bureau, on or about February 7.

[The Chair, Liberal, Jim Carr]

Thank you very much.

Colleagues, we have two more questioners but not sufficient time to give them the full allotment.

I'm going to ask Mr. Shipley and Mr. McKinnon to confine their periods to three minutes each.

Mr. Shipley, the floor is yours for three minutes.