Public Safety Committee on March 24th, 2022

[Doug Shipley, Conservative, Barrie—Springwater—Oro-Medonte, ON]

Thank you, Chair.

Very quickly, to both Commissioner Carrique and to Interim Chief Bell, were you at any time during this protest given any political direction from any level of government, be it your councillor, your mayor, your board of police or your provincial or federal jurisdictions?

[Commr Thomas Carrique]

I can answer first, Mr. Chair.

Absolutely not. At no point in time did I receive any direction. I am solely responsible for the operations of the Ontario Provincial Police.

[Steve Bell]

I can concur with Commissioner Carrique.

I must make the statement, though, that I did not become chief of this operation until February 15. From that time moving forward, I have received no political direction or intonation around what I should do. We operate as an independent policing service under the oversight of our police services board.

[Doug Shipley, Conservative, Barrie—Springwater—Oro-Medonte, ON]

Thank you for that. That's reassuring to know.

Interim Chief Bell, it was a bad situation, quite frankly. When I am here, I live in downtown Ottawa. I walked through this protest when coming to work in the morning, and at night.

I was surprised, though.... There was one particular night when I walked home with a colleague. I'll admit that we took a bit of a longer route to see what was going on and to have a look at this, as I had to walk through it. That night—and it was probably about nine o'clock at night or so—I did not see one single Ottawa police officer anywhere in the protest keeping an eye on anything.

I heard that perhaps absences were up at the beginning of this protest. Could you maybe give me some information as to why there weren't any officers there and whether absences were up at the beginning of this protest?

[Steve Bell]

Mr. Chair, I can't comment specifically on what was observed because I'm unsure of the exact date and time.

What I can tell you is that our members and members from across the country came together in force to help support the takedown of the occupation. It took a considerable amount of time to amass that number of resources.

In the early days of the illegal occupation, we indicated the resourcing pressures that we felt as an organization. We relied on the Ontario Provincial Police and the Royal Canadian Mounted Police to help support our operations.

Although I can't comment on whether you saw an Ottawa police member in the crowd or not, what I can tell you is that from the time this started to the time that it was ultimately taken down, police members monitored and actively worked to dismantle it.

[Doug Shipley, Conservative, Barrie—Springwater—Oro-Medonte, ON]

Thank you for that answer.

I should have clarified that I didn't see any uniform members. I'm sure there were other members in and about there.

My last question, then—

[The Chair, Liberal, Jim Carr]

You have 10 seconds, sir.

[Doug Shipley, Conservative, Barrie—Springwater—Oro-Medonte, ON]

Very quickly, I know that Chief Sloly kept requesting the number of 1,800 officers. Was there a plan to use those 1,800 officers?

[The Chair, Liberal, Jim Carr]

That will have to be a yes-or-no answer.

[Steve Bell]

Absolutely. The number of 1,800 was built around a plan that we needed to build to monitor, maintain, stabilize and ultimately dismantle. That's what we were ultimately able to amass, as the refined planning went into—

[The Chair, Liberal, Jim Carr]

Thank you very much.

Now, for our last three-minute slot, I understand that I go to Mr. Zuberi.

[Sameer Zuberi, Liberal, Pierrefonds—Dollard, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I'd like to thank all the witnesses for being here and for doing their duty to protect and serve society.

I'd like to double back on some remarks that have been made thus far.

We heard from the OPP, Interim Chief Bell, that on February 7, you had intelligence saying there was a national security threat. Was this national security threat related to far-right extremism?

I'm not sure if he can hear me. I ask that my time be paused while we're waiting for the answer.

[The Chair, Liberal, Jim Carr]

Chief, did you hear the question? Are you there?

[Steve Bell]

I'm sorry. That's my mistake. I believed that question was for Commissioner Carrique around the intelligence.

[Sameer Zuberi, Liberal, Pierrefonds—Dollard, QC]

No, for the Ottawa Police.

[Steve Bell]

My apologies. Again, I will defer to Commissioner Carrique around the intelligence. It was the OPP that led the intelligence efforts around this.

[Sameer Zuberi, Liberal, Pierrefonds—Dollard, QC]

If you could reply quickly, was that related to far-right extremism?

[Commr Thomas Carrique]

I'm sorry, Mr. Chair. This is not the appropriate venue to get into the specifics of intelligence.

What I can tell you is that in the collection of intelligence right across this country, with the simultaneous activities going on and the events in our nation's capital, we did identify, collectively, a risk to national security.

[Sameer Zuberi, Liberal, Pierrefonds—Dollard, QC]

Thank you for confirming that.

We've spent about a minute on lost time due to lack of answers, so I ask for that back.

Going back to the OPP, there was a real and live national security concern. You've said that Ottawa handles hundreds of protests every year. Were you in contact with the protest organizers in advance of the actual protest or convoy? If so, did you try to prevent them from entering Wellington Street and the environs of the parliamentary precinct?

[Steve Bell]

I believe that question is for me, as I'm the one who stated that we have managed hundreds of protests.

We regularly and in all occasions attempt to make contact and work—liaise—with the organizers. That's the important part of our police liaison team—

[Sameer Zuberi, Liberal, Pierrefonds—Dollard, QC]

I'm sorry—

[Steve Bell]

[Inaudible—Editor] extremely successful—

[Sameer Zuberi, Liberal, Pierrefonds—Dollard, QC]

—but I'm just trying to ask a question. Were you successful in making contact with the protest organizers?

[Steve Bell]

This was a difficult group to identify protest organizers within. It was a fractured, frayed group. We did make contact with several people—

[Sameer Zuberi, Liberal, Pierrefonds—Dollard, QC]

Thank you. My time is very limited.

I found the Facebook page of the convoy that was developed as of January 14. The protests started on January 22. Were you in contact with the protest organizers through information they made available through their Facebook page and other methods?