Evidence of meeting #19 for Public Safety and National Security in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was twitter.
A recording is available from Parliament.
11:45 a.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Jim Carr
I'll immediately invite Ms. Michaud, who has all of one and a half minutes.
Go ahead.
11:45 a.m.
Bloc
Kristina Michaud Bloc Avignon—La Mitis—Matane—Matapédia, QC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Ms. Perry, you are part of a group of researchers. Do you have any research data on the social, family or individual factors associated with the emergence of extremist groups in Canada?
Do you know or are you discovering what the deepest causes of the emergence of such groups are in the Canadian context?
11:45 a.m.
Director, Ontario Tech University, Centre on Hate, Bias and Extremism
I'm a sociologist by training, so most of the work I do is really looking more at the context in which hate crime emerges from extremism. However, I have been working with some colleagues, in particular at Yorktown Family Services, who take a very different approach. It is one that looks at what the concentric circle is.
What are the individual challenges that those who are vulnerable might be experiencing? What's their family context? What's their broader peer context? What's the broader social context? We're looking at the ways that all of those pieces intercept.
I think that this organization is one that you might like to connect with.
11:45 a.m.
Bloc
Kristina Michaud Bloc Avignon—La Mitis—Matane—Matapédia, QC
Do you think the COVID‑19 pandemic has exacerbated those behaviours among people who may have already been susceptible to getting involved in those kinds of movements?
11:50 a.m.
Director, Ontario Tech University, Centre on Hate, Bias and Extremism
Again, it's at both ends of the spectrum in terms of increasing individual anxieties—
11:50 a.m.
Director, Ontario Tech University, Centre on Hate, Bias and Extremism
—as well as exacerbating the polarization that also feeds into right-wing extremisms. They're being fed the anti-Asian conspiracy theory.
11:50 a.m.
Liberal
11:50 a.m.
NDP
Alistair MacGregor NDP Cowichan—Malahat—Langford, BC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Maybe I'll direct the one question I have to Ms. Perry.
A lot of the things that we're contemplating, policy-wise, are essentially reactive in nature, so I'm more interested in the proactive end of the spectrum. How can we properly address people's legitimate grievances and their frustrations with the way things in life are going right now?
Also, with respect to our youth, we know education is largely within the provincial domain, but do you have any recommendations that our committee could make about what could be done at the federal level to ensure that young Canadians are aware of the narratives used by radical and extremist groups? Do you have any strategies we can use at the federal level to counteract that?
11:50 a.m.
Director, Ontario Tech University, Centre on Hate, Bias and Extremism
Thank you for the opportunity to address that question. That's something I talk an awful lot about: the capacity of the federal government to support the work of grassroots, community-based and civil society organizations that are doing a lot of that work on the ground.
Whether it's working in partnership with boards of education or even particular teachers to develop curricula, or whether it is developing programs that might be offered in the community through partnerships with other community groups, for me, the key is enhancing the capacity of community-based organizations with expertise in this area.
11:50 a.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Jim Carr
Thank you very much.
Mr. Lloyd, it's over to you, sir, for a two-and-a-half-minute round.
11:50 a.m.
Conservative
Dane Lloyd Conservative Sturgeon River—Parkland, AB
My question is for Ms. Via. Something that you said in your recommendations related to monitoring and recruiting members of the armed forces, particularly the veteran side of the question. Are you recommending that this committee proposes that the government proactively monitor the political activities of Canada's veterans?
Can you clarify what you meant?
11:50 a.m.
Co-Founder, Global Project Against Hate and Extremism
No, I wasn't recommending that.
What I was trying to say is that the programs that are put into place should address the military and police officers at all stages of their careers, including veterans. Veterans are vulnerable to recruitment by extremist organizations because of their experience and the tactics they have learned, often in weapons and bomb making. They need to be protected from that recruitment.
11:50 a.m.
Conservative
Dane Lloyd Conservative Sturgeon River—Parkland, AB
I appreciate that clarification.
I wonder about your term “vulnerable”. It seems to me like the more accurate term is that they would be desirable targets. What would you say makes them vulnerable targets?
Are you suggesting that veterans have something inherent in them that makes them more susceptible to being recruited by these organizations?
11:50 a.m.
Co-Founder, Global Project Against Hate and Extremism
I think that they are both desirable recruits and vulnerable. Some studies here in the United States, and some of the work we've done here, show that when active duty members separate from the armed forces, there is a transition period, particularly if there has been anything unpleasant about the separation during that transition period. There's also the sense of community, the sense of being a part of something and the sense of protecting your country. These are things that can make a veteran, in this case, vulnerable.
11:50 a.m.
Conservative
Dane Lloyd Conservative Sturgeon River—Parkland, AB
In my final time, would you suggest a good recommendation would be that the government should seek out better ways to keep veterans integrated in their military communities and to improve their transition to minimize the threat that this recruitment could happen? Is that a recommendation that you would propose?
11:50 a.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Jim Carr
There are nine seconds left on the clock. I'll save them.
Ms. Damoff, you will take us to the top of the hour and the end of this portion of our meeting. You have two and a half minutes.
11:55 a.m.
Liberal
Pam Damoff Liberal Oakville North—Burlington, ON
Thank you so much, Chair.
Thank you to all our witnesses for being here today.
Dr. Perry, thank you for coming to our committee again today. It's wonderful to have your insight.
You spoke at your last appearance at the public safety committee about rise of the incel movement. I wondered if you could update us on that and the role that the incel movement plays within IMVE.
11:55 a.m.
Director, Ontario Tech University, Centre on Hate, Bias and Extremism
If we think about IMVE, it includes gender-motivated extremism, so incel certainly falls under that. However, there's also some intersection very often between incel and what we might think of as more traditional elements of the far right—even white supremacist groups, for example—in that there is also inbred misogyny and traditional fascination with or commitment to traditional gendered roles and gender values within many elements of the far right. They find, I think, a natural affinity among one another.
We're seeing more activity among incels, whether related to far-right groups or not, but we're, thankfully, also seeing far more research in that space that helps us to understand both the peculiarities and the similarities with the far right.
11:55 a.m.
Liberal
Pam Damoff Liberal Oakville North—Burlington, ON
Is there anything the government should be doing? You mentioned research, but is there anything that we can be doing to counter the rise of the incel movement?
11:55 a.m.
Director, Ontario Tech University, Centre on Hate, Bias and Extremism
Again, it comes back to what I was saying earlier on about supporting some of the great work that is going on at the community level. That's an important area of intervention.
I am gratified that gender is included in the understanding of IMVE. I think that goes a long way to enhancing our recognition as a society that violence against women and gender non-conforming people is also a part of this continuum of hatred, hostility and violence.
11:55 a.m.
Liberal
Pam Damoff Liberal Oakville North—Burlington, ON
I have 15 seconds left. I think I'll give them back to you, Chair.
11:55 a.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Jim Carr
Thank you very much.
Everybody has been generous with their time this morning, particularly the witnesses. On behalf of the committee and all parliamentarians, I want to thank you for bringing all of this experience to a very important subject that the committee is studying now and on your behalf. Thank you very much.
Colleagues, we will now take a five-minute suspension to change panels and take a bit of a break. We'll see everybody in five.