Evidence of meeting #5 for Public Safety and National Security in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was gang.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Noon
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Jim Carr
Yes, you need a changing of the guard.
Colleagues, the meeting is suspended for five minutes, give or take.
12:10 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Jim Carr
Welcome back, members of the committee.
To the witnesses who are joining us for the next hour, or most of an hour, thank you very much for offering your wisdom and your expertise to us.
All of the witnesses for this hour have already been introduced, so I will go right to Mr. Bourbonniere and ask him to make his opening statement, for up to five minutes.
Sir, the floor is yours.
12:10 p.m.
Mitch Bourbonniere Outreach Worker, Ogijiita Pimatiswin Kinamatawin, As an Individual
Thank you, Mr. Carr, and thank you to all of you for doing this important work.
My name is Mitch Bourbonniere. I'm coming to you from Winnipeg. I am a worker for a gang diversion or gang exit program called Ogijiita Pimatiswin Kinamatawin, or OPK Manitoba. I have been doing this work for 35 years. I'm also honoured to be on the call with my colleague Kevin from Bear Clan.
From our standpoint, there has been an increase in gun violence in Winnipeg. The participants I work with describe having used long guns and altered long guns as well as homemade guns, replica handguns and handguns, but by far the most prevalent are long guns that have been used either in their current form or in an altered state.
Guns are needed to carry out the drug trade. They are needed for protection. They are needed for intimidation, failure of payment, hostile takeovers, retribution, payback and retaliation in the drug trade. Anyone in Winnipeg can purchase a firearm illegally, much the same way as you would be purchasing illegal drugs. My understanding is that guns are manufactured mostly in the United States and smuggled through our two provincial borders and the American border.
My strong opinion is to put money and resources into law enforcement to concentrate on smugglers and the gun trade, and also to pour more money and resources into groups like the Bear Clan and OPK Manitoba, which are doing the work of helping people exit that gang life.
Those are my comments for today.
Thank you.
12:10 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Jim Carr
Thank you very much.
I appreciate those comments.
Now I would like to invite Mr. Walker to make an opening statement of up to five minutes.
Mr. Walker, it's over to you, sir.
12:10 p.m.
Kevin Walker Interim Executive Director, Bear Clan Patrol Inc.
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Good afternoon. My name is Kevin Walker, and I'm the interim executive director for Bear Clan Patrol Inc.
Our organization was formed in 1992, and it has since grown from a single chapter in the north end to four chapters in Winnipeg and many throughout the province and Canada. Our mission is to provide a constant, visible presence on the street addressing conflict with non-violent interventions, promoting and providing safety and empowering our women, youth, elders and the vulnerable sectors of our community.
As many of you know, Winnipeg is home to the largest urban indigenous population in North America. This population is concentrated in the inner city, where there is a high rate of poverty, homelessness, addiction, mental health issues, exploitation and intergenerational trauma. All these ingredients fuel the topics that we are to discuss today.
Since forming in 1992, Bear Clan Patrol Inc. has maintained its core mandate as a community-based organization, while evolving to meet the ever-expanding needs of the community. Some of our initiatives worth noting are the food security program, youth patrol, missing persons and our involvement working in tandem with the Winnipeg Police Service, and working relationships with the Canadian military in regard to natural disaster situations and search and rescue assistance.
Our food security program saw 400 hampers hand-built and delivered to community elders, families in need, members with mobility issues and some of our city's most vulnerable. Unfortunately, without core funding, we're not able to maintain this initiative at this level. Our food den, however, does serve 300 to 500 people daily at the door with donations from our community allies such as Costco, Red River Co-Op and Sobeys. Food security can aid in family cohesion and better physical and mental health, which in turn equals a healthier community.
We have introduced a youth patrol with some cultural programming with activities ranging from medicine picking to beading, painting and other land-based activities. This program will be the future of our organization. We hope to inspire and engage our youth throughout the city. We hope to continue this with appropriate and adequate funding.
In Winnipeg, the number of missing persons has been ever-increasing, and we saw the demand to become involved. We have had great success in this initiative and have formed a solid working relationship with Winnipeg Police Service, sharing information to better serve the families of the missing.
Our newest initiative is our involvement with the Canadian Forces, especially 17 Wing. They have been participating in our patrols. We've been looking at ways for Bear Clan to assist in natural disasters and search and rescue situations. With the proper training and protocols, we believe we can be an asset and liaison in northern communities.
Bear Clan achieves success in our communities by being a non-violent, non-threatening organization that has earned the trust of the community by being consistent and getting respect by giving respect.
At Bear Clan Patrol Inc., we strive to empower our women and youth. All patrols are female-led. We have proudly put in place a youth patrol and program. Over the last several years, we have seen a rise in violent crimes in the city, most notably in the north end. Bear Clan is doing due diligence when it comes to our involvement with gun control. Any matter in which firearms can be removed from being used in any violent manner is applauded. An example of this, and of the trust that we have within our community, is that we've had a fully loaded handgun with ammunition turned in, and we immediately contacted the Winnipeg Police Service for removal and disposal, along with many improvised weapons.
In relation to gun trafficking and our relationship to that, we are seeing ever-increasing use of firearms within the city and many other communities throughout the province and the country. Guns seem to be more available and accessible to the criminally oriented. What we see with gun crimes committed by street gangs is the tragedy and heartbreak of those affected by gun and gang violence. Bear Clan has attended almost every vigil for those impacted by gun and gang violence. It's with these tragedies that we have devoted a youth patrol with programming in place. With proper core funding, we may be able to provide and fulfill the need for acceptance to feel that sense of family and to give our youth the opportunity to grow and prosper in a safe environment to one day become the next generation of leaders.
Thank you, Mr. Chair, for the opportunity to speak on behalf of Bear Clan Patrol. I'd like to say a big thank you to Mitch Bourbonniere for always being in the neighbourhood and being a brother to us, the Bear Clan. We really appreciate that, being out there with us.
Thank you to all the participants involved in this discussion.
12:15 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Jim Carr
Thank you, Mr. Walker, for the very important work that you lead in our city.
Now I would invite Ms. Orr from the Native Counselling Services of Alberta to take up to five minutes to give us some introductory remarks.
Go ahead, Ms. Orr.
12:15 p.m.
Marlene Orr Chief Executive Officer, Native Counselling Services of Alberta
Good morning, ladies and gentlemen and my indigenous colleagues. Thank you for being here today.
My name is Marlene Orr and I'm speaking to you from Amiskwaciy Waskahikan, the Cree name for Edmonton, Alberta, in Treaty No. 6 territory.
I'm here to share what I've learned about gangs from my many years of working with indigenous offenders in the federal and provincial correctional systems, working in indigenous communities with individuals trying to exit gang life, as well as dealing with challenging behaviours, from gang members who were incarcerated to helping gang members exit that lifestyle. These are some of the examples of the work I've done with indigenous gang members.
I was invited to participate in the Alberta gangs and guns network to link with government, police and practitioners. The first question I asked was why the Edmonton police and the RCMP were not part of the initiative. There was no one who could answer that question.
When I met with a member of the Edmonton Police Service lead team and asked the question, I was told that police are tired of the ineffectiveness of networks like this in the past that failed to make a change, and that these initiatives start up every couple of years but go nowhere. How do you have a guns and gang network without police involvement? This individual was someone I respect highly for really doing a lot of work in understanding indigenous criminality and gang involvement, and for the research he's done in linking historic trauma and victimization to criminality.
How does historic trauma feed into gang activity? The means by which Indian residential school survivors parented children are directly related to how they were conditioned with violence and abuse in the schools. Prior to Indian residential school involvement, parenting and raising children involved many others in the community, who taught the values embedded in natural law: the values of kindness, respect, humility, sharing and self-determination. Indian residential school replaced the nurturing of community with control, violence, abuse, identity shame and loss of connection to family, community and nation. Survivors of Indian residential school parented their children in the only way they were taught—with violence and abuse.
This intergenerational violence, combined with other colonial impacts like community poverty, loss of cultural identity, blatant racism and the lack of opportunity for education and employment, has left indigenous youth powerless and hopeless. Involvement in child welfare systems that separate families, punish children and parents for historic trauma behaviours and continue to traumatize our people leads youth directly from foster care to the prison system.
Normalization of violence through learned behaviour, poverty, whitewashing indigenous history, racism, systemic racism and trauma leave indigenous youth disconnected and feeling oppressed. Gangs prey on this and exploit trauma-based behaviours like alcohol and drug addiction, as well as exploiting the deep longing for cultural identity and a place to belong. Gangs take concepts of historical identity, like warriors, and twist them to their advantage.
In the Prairies, indigenous gangs control the institutions. Even gang members with international links and might know that their status doesn't get them protection in federal institutions in Canada. Paying indigenous gangs to protect them is a usual practice. The overrepresentation of indigenous people in justice and corrections has resulted in a lot of power being centralized in the hands of indigenous gangs in the institutions. The power of sheer numbers of indigenous gang members means strength in the institutions, so as we continue with high incarceration rates of indigenous people, we are contributing to the gang problems in this country.
Young indigenous offenders serving their first federal sentence in penitentiaries are vulnerable to the pressure. They are targeted for membership and are taught how to be more violent and more dangerous. They're taught to expand their criminal skills during incarceration.
Although direct penitentiary placement into indigenous healing lodges run by the indigenous communities is possible, the ratings at first incarceration during remand make that impossible. Therefore, the opportunity to address the impact of historic trauma, build pride in cultural identity, and replace perverted versions of indigenous values proposed by gang members with true teachings—
12:20 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Jim Carr
Thank you very much. We're out of time.
If you can just wrap up your final thoughts in a few seconds, I would be very grateful.
12:20 p.m.
Chief Executive Officer, Native Counselling Services of Alberta
Thank you.
My concern is that as more funding becomes available to address historic trauma in Canada, the funding will be directed to non-indigenous organizations that don't understand our communities, that don't understand our trauma, and that have no connection to the people we serve.
Healing dollars for indigenous people need to be directed to indigenous groups.
12:20 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Jim Carr
Thank you very much.
Now we'll move into a round of questioning.
The first questioner will be Ms. Dancho, for six minutes.
Ms. Dancho, the floor is yours, please.
12:20 p.m.
Conservative
Raquel Dancho Conservative Kildonan—St. Paul, MB
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you to all the hard-working witnesses for the incredible work they're doing to adapt to the needs of their community and fill the gaps from current government institutions and programs. I greatly admire the work you're doing, so thank you for making time for us and for this study today.
Mr. Walker, it's been a pleasure to get to know you and the Bear Clan over my time as a member of Parliament and a representative of Winnipeg. As I mentioned to you previously, one of the first things I did when I was elected was go walk with the Bear Clan. I chose a day like today in Winnipeg to go walk in the community and it was very cold, so I really admire everything that you guys are doing on the ground every day. Thank you for your work.
I find that the model of the Bear Clan is very interesting, and I can understand why it's being duplicated across the country. It's women-led. The indigenous matriarchs in Winnipeg are coming together and creating this phenomenal program on the ground. In your opening remarks, you even mentioned that a loaded handgun was handed over from a community member. Because of all the trust you built with the community that you represent and support, that handgun was handed over and you were able to give it to the police.
I just wanted you to elaborate a little more on what you see on the ground and what you feel needs to be done to stop the rise in violence in Winnipeg. Of course, you know that a lot of young people are getting glamourized into gangs. How do we stop that from happening?
12:25 p.m.
Interim Executive Director, Bear Clan Patrol Inc.
I know for ourselves we're trying to put together a youth patrol program so we can work with our youth. I think the key for everything is to start with getting our youth involved. I know that when I was growing up, sports was a very big influence in keeping me out of trouble and keeping me busy. I think that's what's happening today: The kids aren't getting outside, getting busy and getting involved in sports. It doesn't necessarily have to be sports, but getting involved in something they're passionate about so they can really grow and prosper; that's the key for us.
12:25 p.m.
Conservative
Raquel Dancho Conservative Kildonan—St. Paul, MB
What I'm hearing from some grassroots organizers is that government programs may send social workers and other government representatives who are very knowledgeable and have studied how best to approach these situations, but at times it sounds like if you're not from the community, that trust of a government official isn't there and that penetration to bring them over to the good side, to get them on a good road, is difficult.
Can you explain the gap that Bear Clan fills and how you are able to relate to them on a human level and speak directly to them and bring their walls down?
12:25 p.m.
Interim Executive Director, Bear Clan Patrol Inc.
From my experience, I walk five nights a week in the north end. I'm on the ground with my people, and for us it's about being consistent, being out there, engaging with the community members at their level and meeting them at their level, not going there to try to change what they're about. It's just trying to meet them at their level, meet them at their needs, supply them with the resources they need.
Right now in Winnipeg, with COVID and everything going on, resources are being stretched thin. Everybody is doing their best, and we're trying as well to make a difference.
12:25 p.m.
Conservative
Raquel Dancho Conservative Kildonan—St. Paul, MB
From your level and from the community you're talking to, are you seeing an increase of weapons use, like firearms? Are you seeing more of that on the streets, and drugs as well? We know that drug deaths are going up in Winnipeg.
12:25 p.m.
Interim Executive Director, Bear Clan Patrol Inc.
We see a lot of that with the rise in improvised weapons, handgun use. Violent crimes are on the rise for sure.
Everything stems from poverty, trauma, and things like that. If we can start with programs to get the people looked after, maybe we can start working on some of the crime issues.
12:25 p.m.
Conservative
Raquel Dancho Conservative Kildonan—St. Paul, MB
There's been a lot of talk of various bans across the country for firearms. Do you get the sense that the criminals who are bringing over these young people to their gangs, the criminals you have encountered on your walks and you know are in the community influencing our young people, would be handing over their weapons to police if a government ban was brought in for those weapons?
12:25 p.m.
Interim Executive Director, Bear Clan Patrol Inc.
I don't think so. I think the people who are using the weapons criminally won't be turning them in to anyone any time soon.
We were fortunate that we had gained the trust that one time when we were able to get that one firearm off the street, but it's not like.... We're not taking them off.... They're not delivering them to us at all.
12:25 p.m.
Conservative
Raquel Dancho Conservative Kildonan—St. Paul, MB
How do you see the influence of drug trafficking? What is that doing to our young people? We know that it's coming across the border. A lot of that isn't homegrown hard drugs; it's been smuggled in and trafficked. Is that having an influence as well?
12:25 p.m.
Interim Executive Director, Bear Clan Patrol Inc.
Of the hard drugs in the city, meth is getting to be a real problem. Just to give you an example, since September, we've picked up 11,000 needles. It gives you an idea of what's going on in the north end and surrounding areas.
12:25 p.m.
Conservative
Raquel Dancho Conservative Kildonan—St. Paul, MB
Yes, I remember when I was walking with the Bear Clan and they were picking up all these used meth needles. We found a bunch in a very fluffy snowbank. We were all scurrying to pick them up and dispose of them safely. It was nighttime and I looked up and there was a two-storey house. We were in the backyard picking up these needles and there were three little kids. Their heads were just poking out the window looking at all the flashlights and the commotion. I couldn't help but think how inviting that fluffy snowbank filled with needles would have been to these three young children watching us.
I really thank you for all the work you are doing. Please keep going and please hold our feet to the fire to ensure we're providing the support you need to do your good work.
12:30 p.m.
Interim Executive Director, Bear Clan Patrol Inc.
We appreciate it. Thank you.
12:30 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Jim Carr
Thank you both very much.
Now, for a six-minute slot, I will turn to Ms. Damoff, who now has the floor.
12:30 p.m.
Liberal
Pam Damoff Liberal Oakville North—Burlington, ON
Thank you, Chair.
Ms. Whiskeyjack, we didn't get an opportunity to hear from you. I know you have a very interesting story. Should we not be able to get interpretation from the headset, perhaps you could send us something in writing with your experience and the recommendations that you might have for the committee.
I wonder if we could just take a couple of minutes to hear from you in terms of your experience and what you think we should be doing as a federal government.
February 3rd, 2022 / 12:30 p.m.
Nicole Whiskeyjack Community Coordinator, Native Counselling Services of Alberta
Good morning. Can everybody hear me clearly?