Thank you, Chair.
Thank you to Mr. Noormohamed for those leading remarks.
I can commit to him and promise him there will be no fearmongering from me today. There will be no vilifying.
Believe it or not, most things I'm going to say today aren't even going to be my words. I have a lot of words from other people because, as I have said here many times, I am not a hunter, I am not a firearms owner, and I don't know a lot about firearms. I've learned a lot more over the last while.
Getting back to his words a little bit, if I may, this weekend I received in our office over 2,500 emails. That's a lot of emails. Thankfully we have good staff to go through a bunch of them. I'll be referring to a bunch of them here today, which I'm sure you'll enjoy hearing, Mr. Noormohamed.
The fact is, I think what has people concerned is that this was originally.... We had some great witnesses in here, and we were talking about Bill C-21. It was all about handguns. Then it came here, and it turned into an issue of long guns or, more precisely, a lot of hunting rifles, a lot of firearms.
As I said, it's not going to affect me. I don't own a gun. I don't have even the slight inclination to want to have one. I don't hunt, but a lot of my friends do. A tremendous number of people in Barrie—Springwater—Oro-Medonte do own hunting firearms and do hunt.
I have a split riding, where Barrie is obviously a very urban area, and Springwater—Oro-Medonte is very rural. It's all farms, quite frankly, a beautiful area. Come up and visit us sometime, Mr. Noormohamed. We'll show you a nice area.
A lot of them do hunt. A lot of them also own firearms for the protection of their livestock. I have heard a lot from them, more so than I even thought we were going to hear, but it has resonated, and this has concerned many residents.
One thing that was mentioned by you is that you're not banning all firearms. I don't think we've ever said that you're banning all long guns, but you're banning perhaps all the long guns that someone owns. Are you saying, “It's okay. Right now you own those two or three or four hunting rifles. You can't own those anymore. Give them up. Go to the store”? As you said, some of them are on sale. Some of the people right now are struggling. Some of the people feed their families with hunting. Are you saying, “Get rid of those ones you have now and go buy some more firearms because they're on sale”?
I don't think that's fair, and I don't think it's going to do anything for crime that's going on. That's really what we're talking about here—crime. No one wants to see anybody getting hurt, especially with a firearm.
I have done a little bit of research. Actually, I didn't do it. I am going to give some credit to my great staff, my new staff especially. She deserves a round of applause. She has gone through and found a lot of quotes from a lot of members of your party, Mr. Noormohamed, who have discussed what this bill is supposed to be about. I am going to read a few of these now, and I'm sure we'll all enjoy these, so I'll take a drink, and we'll sit back and have some fun.
The first few are from Minister Mendicino:
I spoke directly with municipal leaders and mayors, who represent rural Canada. And it is important we come up with gun policy that does reflect the varying experiences of Canadians from coast to coast to coast. I've had some conversations with hunters and recreational sport shooters, who indicate as you did that they use long rifles to keep some of the wildlife away from their properties.
I quote Mr. Mendicino again, at our own committee:
We're listening very carefully to indigenous leaders to make sure that for those who hunt as part of their tradition or who hunt to eat, this bill will be consistent with those principles of reconciliation. I assure you that those conversations are ongoing.
All those were discussed before all these long rifles and hunting rifles were put into place.
I have some quotes here from Mr. Scarpaleggia from when we were debating it in Parliament:
Mr. Speaker, I left off by acknowledging that I recognize the cultural value of hunting in many communities and for many Canadians. Having visited a community during moose hunting season in particular, I understand and have seen first-hand the value that local citizens attach to that time of year.
I also understand the sentimental value, if we want to call it that, attached to certain heirloom firearms. I believe it was the member for Kildonan—St. Paul who had, at one point in her speech, talked about a rifle, a shotgun, that had been handed down from generation to generation in her family. In a sense, it represented the efforts of the family, going way back, to carve out a living in a harsh environment in Manitoba.
When I hear it like that, maybe I do want to take up hunting. That sounds nice, doesn't it, Mr. Chair?
It continues:
I understand the sentimental value of that heirloom firearm, but what I do not understand is the sentimental value of, for example, a Saturday night special or an AK-47. The rifle the member for Kildonan—St. Paul was talking about was used to carve out a space in the wilderness, I presume, but some of these weapons are used to carve up neighbourhoods through gun violence.
This bill is not about the cultural value of hunting. It is not about persecuting duck hunters or deer hunters, who do not use handguns to hunt their prey, in any event.
I would like to know if they still feel the same after this amendment—if it isn't going after hunters and prey.
During second reading,Mr. Gerretsen, on June 22, says:
As I said, all those in my family and extended family who I know have hunted for generations, have never once, during our own individual discussions about this issue around the dinner table, talked about the need for a handgun. Yes, there are concerns from time to time about weapons, and in particular those used for hunting. I can respect that, but I just do not think handguns fall into that category, nor has any hunter I have ever spoken with agreed with that sentiment.
Ms. Sgro, on June 21, says:
This is certainly not about hunters, God bless them, who can go right ahead and do their hunting. I have family who hunt deer, moose, and all of that, as well. That is not what we are talking about with this bill. We are talking about gun violence, handguns. That is what is doing the killing in my riding and throughout the city of Toronto.
Again, all those quotes were before the amendment. We'll get into some quotes regarding the amendment after this.
Mr. Gerretsen, again, on June 22, says:
I guess it really comes down to what they determine to be an impact on somebody. Would it have an impact to tell people that we do not think it is appropriate to be carrying a firearm? If that negatively impacts them because they have a passion for doing that, then I guess it would impact them. However, I do not think it would impact those who are using a firearm for the purpose of hunting, in particular, which is the example I have been using.
Mr. Turnbull, on June 20, says:
Bill C-21 is targeting handguns, not firearms used for hunting or sport shooting. However, as the Prime Minister has said, there is no reason other than these activities that the general public should need guns in their everyday lives....
Firearms owners can rest assured that, as always, we will consult with Canadians before finalizing and implementing regulations.
Mr. Fragiskatos, on June 9, says, “Hunting, as I said before, is a fundamental Canadian tradition. I do not dispute that at all. I have hunted.”
Again, Mr. Fragiskatos, on June 9, says:
Canadians who have a registered handgun, for target shooting, for example, could still use it. I emphasize that. I also emphasize that hunters are not the focus. Hunting is a Canadian tradition. People practice it, particularly in rural communities, but I have a number of constituents in my community of London, an urban area, who hunt....
In case there is any confusion, and I know that if there is confusion...let me just reassure Conservative colleagues that Bill C-21 is not about hunters.
Patty Hajdu, on June 9, says:
Madam Speaker, our government has been very clear that this is legislation that does not target hunters and sport shooters. In fact, in my own riding, I have a community of both hunters and sport shooters that are thriving and that are honoured by many of their neighbours, friends and colleagues.
This is about creating safer communities for all Canadians. Sport shooters can rest assured that we would not eliminate sport shooting nor prohibit new sport shooting enthusiasts from using business-owned handguns. In my riding, hunting has a long tradition amongst many families. The hunters I know do not use handguns to shoot a deer. Today's announcement will not affect hunters and farmers.
Well, I think the new announcement and the amendment definitely will.
Once again, Ms. Hajdu, on June 9, says:
In my riding of Thunder Bay—Superior North many people own firearms for hunting and sport shooting. The proposed legislation that was introduced last week would not restrict guns used for these purposes.
As we all know now, it does.
On June 1, MP Irek Kusmierczyk said to the Windsor Star, “We are not seeking to prevent hunting or law-abiding sportsmen”.
Those are all quotes that were taken before the amendment—before this came out. I'm sure some of those would have changed now, because if I have received 2,500 emails over the weekend, I will guarantee you that some of those rural ridings especially have received many. I know the riding of my colleague beside me is very rural, northern Ontario. I'm sure he has received many. Mr. Noormohamed says he has received them too.
Something has changed, and I think it's the amendment we are all here to talk about.
I received, as I said, a lot of emails from hunters. I'm going to read some of their emails because I don't hunt, and I don't own a gun. I'm not here to vilify. I'm not here to fearmonger. I'm here to do my job, which is to speak for our residents and to speak for Canadians.
I received this, and I'll say the first name. This is Steve's email: “Yesterday, the Liberals tabled an amendment to C-21 that would prohibit hundreds of thousands of common hunting rifles that have detachable magazines. The rifle that just a week ago I used to shoot a deer will now be the subject of a forced confiscation scheme. I just want to touch base with you about how ludicrous this is, nothing more than a punitive move against lawful owners and hunters, also a complete joke in the law enforcement community, as was the handgun freeze. The federal government has now frozen more than $35,000 of my lawfully owned assets. I can no longer use my now prohibited rifles, and my handgun collection is now worthless. If this amendment passes, that amount only increases. Thank you.”
That's one. I have another, from Andre:
I'm writing to you today as a Canadian, firearm owner, and hunter, as I am extremely concerned about the last-minute amendment the government is seeking to Bill C-21; the handgun freeze.
The amendment in the proposed bill that the Liberal government is trying to pass will ban all commercially available semi-automatic rifles and many semi-automatic shotguns, as well as currently owned and used firearms used by Canadian hunters and sport shooters.
As a hunter I want to explain the importance of this style of firearm for hunting in Canada. Semi automatic firearms including shotguns and rifles, are especially important for accessibility of those with disabilities in Canada who currently or intend to participate in hunting. These firearms are especially useful for hunters (including those with disabilities) because they allow for easier second shots if the animal is wounded, and their actions also reduce recoil significantly, which makes them especially useful when a larger, heavier-recoiling calibre is required. This is important when hunting big, or dangerous game—of which, Canada is home to. Additionally they are also easier to operate for those with disabilities and thus, safer.
Another important consideration to note is that there are millions of currently non-restricted individual firearms that meet the proposed definition of a prohibited firearm based on this amendment, and likely over a million licensed gun owners in possession of a firearm that would be prohibited by this legislation. Over a million people will see their property rendered worthless, unable to be inherited or passed down to remind future generations of past traditions; their owners having done nothing more heinous than passing the RCMP-mandated training and testing to obtain a gun license and purchasing a firearm legally.
This new proposed bill unjustly targets hunters who are made up of law abiding citizens from various walks of life including the First Nations (Indigenous) who have long participated in the lifestyle of hunting. Many of these individuals and families rely on hunting to sustain their food supply, and heading into a global recession is only going to put undue stress on these Canadians.
Bill C-21 is clearly wrong and should be stopped, even if only so as to allow proper debate through the proper democratic process. So please examine Bill C-21, the amendments being sought by the government, and please consider myself and the thousands of other constituents this legislation unfairly impacts and oppose these changes.
I look forward to hearing a response and having a discussion on this matter.
Well, he got more than a response. He got his letter read into the record, so that's nice.
We have another one here from Gordon:
I am not feeling very well today because my country, Canada will be calling me a criminal because of the firearm that I own. I have been a hunter before 1980. I was gifted the firearm in 2007 and our Uncle relived all the stories of the Moose and Deer harvested with it. I to have taken Deer with it and my son has used it with me sighting it in and always referred to the firearm as the “Heritage Gun”. But my government wants our History to stop. My government does not want him to pass it along to his Son and Daughter. Why does our government feel this 42 year old firearm and other large bore bolt action rifles that my fellow hunters use are a threat to society?
Do you have heirlooms to pass along to family members? A side table, a chair, a picture or a tea pot. Well when they get destroyed or taken from you their history is gone. Even if replaced with another the history can not be replaced, as the new one was not held in the hands of your ancestors.
If we go away for a vacation, will an American style SWAT TEAM show up at our home or will the RCMP break into our home like they did in High River Alberta. The magnitude of this amendment and its late introduction at such a late stage lacks transparency and seems under handed. Does someone have a vendetta against firearms or firearm owners? Because there is no opportunity for individuals or groups to submit evidence about the amendments.
To the Senators, the chamber of 2nd thought. Consider what they just want you to rubber stamp. Please confer with your colleagues and consider the ramifications of this law, how it was crafted and the impact on the families of all involved.
I won't read all 2,500. In case you want me to, Mr. Noormohamed, I have a few more, but not 2,500; I promise.
This one's from Corey:
As a long standing hunter I am concerned about these changes to Bill C-21. I learned to hunt as a teenager and enjoy time in the outdoors with family and friends who hunt. We all have shotguns that are maintained and stored properly. None are automatic or have magazines that store more shells than what migratory bird or other hunting regulations allow. We eat what we harvest. However, the direction of gun restrictions in Canada is going down a path that will soon impact the average safe hunter. Please do not allow this to happen. I would not want this part of our heritage of Canada to be destroyed.
Moreover the potential impact of adding hundreds of models adds significant cost to the proposed buyback program already in place for more restricted firearms.
This Bill impacts many hunters, as many of these firearms are used by hunters across the country.
Finally where is the transparency—there is no opportunity for individuals or groups to submit concern for or evidence about the amendments.
There's another one from Zachary:
My name is Zachary Peck, I am a 22-year-old wildlife biologist and a lifelong hunter. I have been hunting since I was 13 years old and it has been a long-standing yearly tradition that I have taken part in with 3 generations of my family and hopefully more to come, as well I have met some of my best friends through the sport. Since I started hunting I have also come to supplement my diet with purely game meat that I harvest. So naturally, you can see my concern when I read about the amendments to bill C-21 which included several firearms used for lawful hunting every year in our country. Further, this bill was originally put forth as an action against handgun violence and was said to have no effect on hunting or firearms used for hunting. These amendments show an extreme lack of transparency on behalf of the government and have shown that this bill is a means to an end for legal firearm owners, sportsmen, sportswomen, and other outdoor enthusiasts alike. I urge you to oppose this bill as it would be detrimental not only to me and my lifestyle but would have deleterious effects on Legal Law-abiding gun owners across this country.
This one's from Cindy:
I write to you today in response to the egregious introduction of the recent amendment to BillC21, and its subsequent impact on the country, provinces, communities, individuals and my family. From the beginning the whole BillC21 has been a disastrous piece of legislation that will do nothing to stop actual gun crimes, which has already been proven by the continuing amount of hand gun crimes currently happening after the handgun freeze came into effect. And now, you have decided, on a whim, to add in the property that my family and I have worked extremely hard for, have procured the proper certifications for, take great care and respect for, and most importantly use it as a tool to educate ourselves about many aspects of life. We have a strong relationship with the history of Canada, our Heritage and our environment due to our relationship with our property. And now, the government wants to forcibly take this from myself and my family? With no opportunities for individuals or groups to submit evidence about the amendments? What kind of Transparency is this? The introduction of an amendment of this magnitude at such a late stage reeks of deceitfulness. Although, based on the track record of this government, I am not surprised.
I would also ask if anyone within this government has questioned what kind of impact this Bill will have? What is the impact to law enforcement who will be diverted from actual crime, to confiscating law abiding citizens property? What is the added cost of these buybacks? I am sure you will have zero people who will hand over hard earned property for free. What about the economic impacts? Gun Ranges? Outfitters? Hunting Stores? Gun Shops? What are you planning to do with all the people you force out of work with this Bill?
Why are you potentially putting law abiding citizens who have never been on the wrong side of the law into a position where they have to give up their passions? Their life's work?
I expect these questions to be answered for such a strong piece of legislation to even be considered, with the vast amount of lives and livelihoods this will affect.
Thank you in advance for your efforts in putting together answers to my questions above for such a serious matter.
Sincerely,
Cindy.
I have one more:
My name is Cade.... I am 16 years old and a third generation hunter. I would first like to thank you for reading my message, it means a lot. Now that you know who I am, I'd like to explain why I'm writing to you. I am a third generation hunter from Ontario and like many Ontarians, hunting and shooting is a very important part of my life. Bill c-21 would completely put a stop to hunting and sports shooting with their illogical and senseless laws being proposed, that will prohibit ownership of semi auto shotguns and rifles with detachable magazines. Most if not all responsible gun owners here in Canada and around the world own semi automatic rifles with detachable magazines. With bill c-21, these hunting and big game sporting rifles will be illegal (as stated before) and will not only upset Canadian firearms owners but will cause poverty stricken gun owners to give up hunting completely due to not having money for a new rifle/shotgun. These laws are discriminatory not only to the poor gun owners of canada, but to the rest of the owners. Imagine, if you will, a world where you spend a substantial amount of money, an amount that you had to save up for years, for a new car only for it to be taken away because of someone who stole a car which happened to be the same make and model and went on a rampage with it. That's how we felt when we heard the news of this new bill being proposed. Due to the system's own shortcomings, criminals running loose with illegal firearms, either stolen from the United States or Canadian homes, we will lose our hobby, source of food, source of employment, source of joy, our sense of community and way of life in Northern Ontario.
Statistically, this bill will not stop shootings, In fact, they will most likely increase. The stats show that murderous shootings happen more with illegal firearms than legal ones. Firearms and handguns that are already prohibited, like the Glock 42 which could fit in one's pocket, and restricted in Canada are smuggled into our Country. To put a stop to firearm related death we must drop this bill and instead put our resources into tighter border security and much stricter sentencing for firearms related crime instead of loosening the sentencing times....
In 2021, we had 297 deaths due to gun violence. The year prior, 2020, Trudeau banned over 1500 firearms due to the Nova Scotia massacre which claimed 22 lives. I think it's important to note in 2020 we had 278 deaths from firearm related incidents. So even though he banned over 1500 firearms, we had an increase of almost 20 deaths due to firearms. If that bill did nothing to stop criminals from committing these terrible crimes, why would this new bill work?
Being from a family of hunters the ban would affect my family, community and myself more than anyone since the Bill will be banning semi auto external magazine fed rifles and shotguns and some single shot rifles. When hunting for game we are taught to make a clean shot to decrease pain and eliminate suffering for the animal. At times a clean shot is not made, but with a semi automatic the hunter can get off another round quickly to alleviate their suffering. With the banning of these types of guns, the time it would take to reload the gun, the game could have fled. If you have ever been hunting you know a fleeing wounded animal is very dangerous not only for the hunter but other people in the area and other game. I feel a fleeing wounded animal poses more of a safety risk than the guns being banned in the Bill c-21.
Thank you for your time and please support us 642,000 Ontarian hunters in this fight for our firearm rights.
It's signed “Cade”.
As I said, that's just a little snippet of the emails we've received. Everybody's nodding their head. I'm sure everyone around this table received as many as I did over the weekend, or more. As I said, we received 2,500, and that was over the weekend. I'm sure it's more now. We're hearing from regular Canadians. Again, we're hearing from people who use these hunting rifles to feed their families, to support their lifestyle.
The heirloom thing, I didn't know much about that. I'm understanding that now. As I said, not being a firearms owner, I didn't understand it all. I'm beginning to understand it a lot. These are real people. These are messages from Canadians. I think, around this table, this is what we need to think about more often. This is what we need to hear.
I'll leave it there for now, and I'll allow my colleagues to carry on.
Thank you, Mr. Chair.