Evidence of meeting #52 for Public Safety and National Security in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was firearms.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Liberal
Taleeb Noormohamed Liberal Vancouver Granville, BC
Okay.
In that list, that's certainly where a lot of the conversation has been.
If I could, then, turn to you, Mr. Smith, I want us to take the time to check the record on things. The schedule we have includes all of the firearms that are prohibited now in Canada.
Is that correct?
Technical Specialist, Canadian Firearms Program, Royal Canadian Mounted Police
The short answer is no. There are a variety of places within section 81 of the Criminal Code where firearms can be defined to be prohibited. Schedule 1, which consists of, essentially, repeating from the regulations that the firearms that were prohibited in the 1990s and in 2020 are prohibited right now, because of the regulations, and in the future, if this passes by the schedule.
There are other means by which firearms become prohibited, such as being fully automatic or such as having a sawed-off barrel and so on. Those criteria are found elsewhere in the Criminal Code classification matrix.
Liberal
Taleeb Noormohamed Liberal Vancouver Granville, BC
Thank you.
I'd like to talk about some specifics. Like many—I think all of us—I have received correspondence from constituents and from others from across the country who are concerned. I want to make sure we do all we can to clarify what needs to be clarified.
I'd like to ask you about a series of weapons that I and others have received correspondence about. The first is the Ruger No. 1. It's a single-shot hunting rifle. It's found on the list.
Does this mean, from your perspective, that the government is proposing to ban all Ruger No. 1s, or is this list targeting only the Ruger No. 1s capable of firing certain calibres?
Technical Specialist, Canadian Firearms Program, Royal Canadian Mounted Police
It's the latter that's correct. The Ruger No. 1 rifles, which are prohibited now because they fall within paragraph 95 of the existing regulations, are prohibited if, and only if, they are chambered for a calibre that produces muzzle energies in excess of 10,000 joules. Other Ruger No. 1 rifles, which are chambered for different calibres that do not produce that level of energy, will remain in the existing category, which, broadly speaking, is non-restricted.
Liberal
Taleeb Noormohamed Liberal Vancouver Granville, BC
Just for clarity, this is in clause 95, so this predates....
Technical Specialist, Canadian Firearms Program, Royal Canadian Mounted Police
Yes. Clause 95 is part of the regulations that came into effect in May 2020 and that are repeated with exactly the same number in the proposed schedule.
Technical Specialist, Canadian Firearms Program, Royal Canadian Mounted Police
The effect of the law is not new. The only part that is new is that the firearm now appears in print in the schedule, whereas it didn't appear in print in the former regulation, but the effect of the law is the same. In both cases, the firearm is prohibited if it's chambered for a calibre that exceeds 10,000 joules.
Liberal
Taleeb Noormohamed Liberal Vancouver Granville, BC
Right. You're saying that hunters are still unable to use their Ruger No. 1s, subject to the caveat you've just articulated.
Technical Specialist, Canadian Firearms Program, Royal Canadian Mounted Police
Yes, that's correct. Any Ruger No. 1 that is chambered for a calibre that produces less energy than 10,000 joules is not going to be prohibited either by the current regulations or by the proposed schedule.
As I've said before, there are other reasons that a firearm can become prohibited. If someone had a Ruger No. 1 with a sawed-off barrel, it could be prohibited for that reason. Generally speaking, Ruger No. 1 rifles that are not chambered in high-energy calibres will be non-restricted.
Liberal
Taleeb Noormohamed Liberal Vancouver Granville, BC
For further clarity, for the last two and a half years, no one has been able to use that version that can fire in excess of 10,000 joules. Is that correct?
Technical Specialist, Canadian Firearms Program, Royal Canadian Mounted Police
That's correct. Firearms chambered for the high-energy calibres have been prohibited since May 2020.
Liberal
Taleeb Noormohamed Liberal Vancouver Granville, BC
Again, just to clarify, hunters have still been able to use the single-shot hunting rifle that fires smaller-calibre rounds that don't exceed 10,000 joules.
Technical Specialist, Canadian Firearms Program, Royal Canadian Mounted Police
Well, the amnesty that's in effect right now for those firearms does provide for some use of the firearms. It's theoretically possible that someone would qualify, but the general answer is no.
Liberal
Taleeb Noormohamed Liberal Vancouver Granville, BC
Let's talk about the Weatherby Mark V. I've had a few people write about the Weatherby Mark V. Can you tell us whether this is a ban on all Weatherby Mark Vs or only the version of the Mark V that's capable of firing certain calibre cartridges?
Technical Specialist, Canadian Firearms Program, Royal Canadian Mounted Police
It's the latter. It essentially follows the same pattern as for the Ruger No. 1. Only the rifles that are chambered for a calibre that produces 10,000 joules of energy or more would be prohibited, either by section 95 in the existing regulations or clause 96 in the proposed schedule.
Liberal
Taleeb Noormohamed Liberal Vancouver Granville, BC
Again, just as with the Ruger, hunters are still able to use their Weatherby Mark V. They just have to use it with cartridges that were designed for hunting.
Technical Specialist, Canadian Firearms Program, Royal Canadian Mounted Police
Well, the firearm has to be chambered for a cartridge that produces energy less than 10,000 joules.
Liberal
Taleeb Noormohamed Liberal Vancouver Granville, BC
How common is the use of the Weatherby Mark V without the 10,000 joule capability?
Technical Specialist, Canadian Firearms Program, Royal Canadian Mounted Police
Since the majority of Weatherby Mark V rifles are non-restricted, we really don't have any data on how many are in Canada or what they're used for.
Liberal
Taleeb Noormohamed Liberal Vancouver Granville, BC
This would not affect all of those folks who are using that gun to hunt at present.
Technical Specialist, Canadian Firearms Program, Royal Canadian Mounted Police
The existing regulations and the proposed schedule 1, clause 96 in particular, would not apply to the Weatherby Mark V if it's chambered for a calibre that produces energy of less than 10,000 joules. These are ordinary, common calibres used by hunters in Canada. There are lots of calibres available and lots of calibres in common use that are nowhere near as energetic as 10,000 joules.
Liberal
Taleeb Noormohamed Liberal Vancouver Granville, BC
We hear from folks that we don't know what hunters use. When you say it's commonly used by hunters, how do you inform that statement?
Technical Specialist, Canadian Firearms Program, Royal Canadian Mounted Police
That's just from general familiarity with the market. It's based on, as I said, a general knowledge of the firearms industry, what firearms are available, what they're advertised for and what kind of ammunition is advertised. It's just general information.
Liberal
Taleeb Noormohamed Liberal Vancouver Granville, BC
In sum, there is a data collection and analysis process that takes place before such declarations are made. Is that correct?