Public Safety Committee on Oct. 18th, 2023

[The Chair, Liberal, Ron McKinnon]

I'll ask the clerk and I'll get back to you.

Thank you.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

Thank you, Chair, for your wise ruling. That certainly accords with my understanding of the rules—

[Jennifer O'Connell, Liberal, Pickering—Uxbridge, ON]

I'm sorry. On a point of order, Chair, you didn't give the floor back, and I'd like to hear the ruling before someone just moves on.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

He certainly didn't give it to you, Ms. O'Connell.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ron McKinnon]

Mr. Genuis, I'm sorry for interrupting.

Yes, Mr. Genuis is properly subbed in for Mr. Lloyd, and therefore he has the same powers that Mr. Lloyd would have in this particular committee at this time.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

Thank you, Chair.

Thank you, Ms. O'Connell, for assisting the committee with that clarification of the rules.

I will just start from the beginning the notice of motion I was reading so that there is clarity about what it says:

That the committee recognize the rise in hateful attacks against people of faith and the places where they worship in Canada, affirm the constitutionally protected right to freedom of religion and call upon the government to immediately increase protection for synagogues, mosques and churches in Canada, and that this be reported to the House.

[Claude DeBellefeuille, Bloc, Salaberry—Suroît, QC]

I have a point of order, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ron McKinnon]

I have Madame DeBellefeuille on a point of order.

[Claude DeBellefeuille, Bloc, Salaberry—Suroît, QC]

I've been here for about 45 minutes, and I must say I'm having trouble keeping up. Can you tell me what we are doing? I thought we were going to discuss the proposed amendments to the motion. I understood the amendments. In fact, Mr. Genuis did a great job explaining to us what he wants as well as the subamendments he proposed to Mr. Julian's motion.

However, I don't understand why a notice of motion is being discussed. Can you explain that, please? I am the Bloc Québécois whip, and I'm standing in for another member, because we have a full plate right now. I feel as though I'm wasting my time here. I don't really know what's happening procedurally right now, so maybe I'm wrong. My understanding is that we started debating proposed subamendments to a motion, and now we are listening to notices of motion.

Can you please tell me what exactly is going on right now?

[The Chair, Liberal, Ron McKinnon]

I certainly appreciate the opportunity to speak to you on this and certainly welcome you to the committee. Thank you for sitting here for these 45 minutes.

Yes, we are engaged in a motion that Mr. Shipley has offered an amendment on, and Mr. Genuis has offered a subamendment. Strictly speaking, that's what we should be talking about. Notices of motion on various other matters are, strictly speaking, not in order, and I have advised Mr. Genuis of this. Hopefully, he is done at this point with those notices of motion and we can carry on with the substantive matters of the subamendment that he has moved.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

Mr. Chair, I am almost done on that.

I just want to clarify—because you did say that I could provide them, and they were provided—that those do count as having been provided as notices of motion.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ron McKinnon]

I don't think I said you could provide them. I said that it was not really in order to do it at this time, but that I was kind of worn down and would probably let it go.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

Are you letting it go or not letting it go?

I don't agree with your interpretation of their not being in order, but I have read them.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ron McKinnon]

You have given the committee notice of motion.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

Thank you.

Okay, so they will be in the minutes for the meeting.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ron McKinnon]

Everything you've said, as far as I know, is going to be in the minutes.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

Well, everything I say goes into the evidence, but the minutes are the decisions or the notices, etc.

Can I maybe get a nod from the clerk if there is an understanding based on the chair that those will be in the minutes?

[The Chair, Liberal, Ron McKinnon]

The clerk has so nodded.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

Okay, that's duly nodded.

I'll just provide one more notice of motion that is related to the matter at hand. The motion is that, in the opinion of the committee, the families of Paul Bernardo's victims should have been meaningfully consulted on his transfer to medium security, and that this be reported to the House.

Having provided those four notices of motion—

[Claude DeBellefeuille, Bloc, Salaberry—Suroît, QC]

I have a point of order, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ron McKinnon]

Go ahead, Mrs. DeBellefeuille.

[Claude DeBellefeuille, Bloc, Salaberry—Suroît, QC]

I am ever so sorry for interrupting Mr. Genuis. What he's talking about is fascinating, but I'd like to know something. Is the member challenging your authority by continuing to read notices of motion? Do I understand that correctly?

I don't often attend committee meetings, so I'm trying to learn here. Do I understand correctly that he's challenging your authority? After all, you did tell him that this was not the time to put motions on notice, that they were out of order, but he keeps doing it. Do I have that right, or am I way off base?

[The Chair, Liberal, Ron McKinnon]

I certainly would interpret it this way.

It's 10 minutes after seven and late at night. We've been here all day. As I said, I'm a little bit worn down. I really would hope that Mr. Genuis would get back to the matter at hand and let us get done so that we can vote on this motion or this subamendment and whatnot and actually get to the point where we can do the study.

Mr. Genuis, I believe you still have the floor.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

Thank you, Chair.

I do have more to say on the substantive topic, but I have received a note that there have been informal discussions among the parties and there is a universal will to adjourn the meeting. I don't know if I'm correct in that, but I will move adjournment of the meeting on the basis of, I think, discussions that have happened.

So I'll move that and we'll see if my understanding of that was correct or not.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ron McKinnon]

If you move a motion to adjourn on the basis of whatever, that makes it debatable. Why don't you—