Evidence of meeting #85 for Public Safety and National Security in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was transfer.
A recording is available from Parliament.
12:40 p.m.
Liberal
Peter Schiefke Liberal Vaudreuil—Soulanges, QC
Ms. Kelly, all of that was used in determining that Mr. Bernardo should be transferred from maximum security to medium security. Is that correct?
12:40 p.m.
Liberal
Peter Schiefke Liberal Vaudreuil—Soulanges, QC
In your determination, would there be any points attributed to how much media coverage any particular inmate received? Is that part of the discussion?
12:40 p.m.
Liberal
Peter Schiefke Liberal Vaudreuil—Soulanges, QC
Would there be any points awarded one way or the other as to how much we, as elected representatives, wanted to see an inmate housed, where we would want to see that person housed?
12:40 p.m.
Liberal
Peter Schiefke Liberal Vaudreuil—Soulanges, QC
Would there be any points put forward either way as to the strong will of any minister of any political party? Would that play a factor in your consideration of whether or not an inmate should be transferred?
12:40 p.m.
Commissioner, Correctional Service of Canada
No. That is because we are guided by the legislation and regulations and by policies.
12:40 p.m.
Liberal
Peter Schiefke Liberal Vaudreuil—Soulanges, QC
Correct me if I'm wrong, but the top priority for you and all of the workers of the correctional facilities in Canada is to keep Canadians safe. That is the basis for your decisions.
12:40 p.m.
Liberal
Peter Schiefke Liberal Vaudreuil—Soulanges, QC
So far, you've done.... I will credit you and your team for this: We've seen the rates go down significantly in terms of inmates who have escaped. We reached a high, in 2006-07, of 38 inmates who escaped. We went down to a 20-year low of nine in 2016-17. Then we saw 13 in 2018-19, 12 in 2019-20, and 11 in 2020-21. We're going steadily down. That is the result of the good work that you and your team are doing. I want to congratulate you on that.
What I want to use my time here for—and this is the message I would like to convey to you and your team, whom I've said have done good work in keeping Canadians safe—is to say that I think there was something that was done, unfortunately, incorrectly here, and I hope that this is the focus of your work and your team's work with the multidisciplinary committee. It was the way that the families of the victims were treated here. They were told the morning of the transfer, without being given any kind of necessary counselling, possibly, after hearing this news and watching it on the media. The way that must have impacted them.... I say this as a father, as a brother, as a son and as a member of Parliament representing my community, Vaudreuil-Soulanges. I cannot imagine what kind of an impact that must have had and what kind of a day they had.
There was an oversight here. I'm glad that you acknowledge that, and I truly hope—and I'm passing this message along to you—that this will be the focus of the work that this committee does and that there's due diligence put in place to ensure that families and victims are treated with greater due diligence and greater care moving forward.
That's how I want to use my line of questioning today. Thank you.
12:40 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Heath MacDonald
Is that it? Thank you, Mr. Schiefke.
We will continue moving on.
Mr. Blanchette-Joncas, you have two and a half minutes, please.
12:40 p.m.
Bloc
Maxime Blanchette-Joncas Bloc Rimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les Basques, QC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Ms. Kelly, the review committee that looked into the Paul Bernardo case made two recommendations. The first was that Correctional Service Canada share the findings and recommendations of the review with registered victims, prior to any release of information to the media or to the public. You said that you had done so.
The second recommendation was that Correctional Service Canada strengthen victim notifications and engagement by striking a committee dedicated to this work. You said that you had also done this.
In practical terms, what has your organization implemented in response to these two recommendations?
12:40 p.m.
Commissioner, Correctional Service of Canada
As I said, we set up the committee. It has held meetings to discuss how and when to share information. Various steps have been taken, and Ms. Gagnon could elaborate on them.
12:45 p.m.
Bloc
Maxime Blanchette-Joncas Bloc Rimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les Basques, QC
Ms. Kelly, you're saying that you support the recommendations and that you're ready to implement them.
However, let's take a step back. If Paul Bernardo's transfer were to take place again today, would things be done differently? If so, what?
12:45 p.m.
Commissioner, Correctional Service of Canada
According to the ministerial directive, when considering the transfer of an inmate, it's vital to contact the victims, inform them of the process, talk to them and ask them if they want to update their statement. I think that this is really important. I've had a chance to talk to the victims. I think that these changes will be beneficial.
12:45 p.m.
Bloc
Maxime Blanchette-Joncas Bloc Rimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les Basques, QC
In terms of these recommendations, how would you rate public trust in the justice system and Correctional Service Canada? What message would you like to share with the public today about how things could be done differently and better in the future?
12:45 p.m.
Commissioner, Correctional Service of Canada
I've spent so much time with Correctional Service Canada. It's tough to hear that Canadians no longer trust our decisions. As commissioner, I don't want this to be the case. I'd like to invite all committee members to visit our institutions and see the work that we do.
I'm very open to suggestions for improvement. If anything can be improved, I think that we should make the adjustments. We'll do the same thing for the victims.
12:45 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Heath MacDonald
Thank you, Ms. Kelly.
We're going to move on to Ms. Barron now for two and half minutes, please.
12:45 p.m.
NDP
Lisa Marie Barron NDP Nanaimo—Ladysmith, BC
Thank you, Chair.
Ms. Kelly, I can't remember if you said that you were 41 or 42 years—
12:45 p.m.
NDP
Lisa Marie Barron NDP Nanaimo—Ladysmith, BC
In 40 years, I'm certain there's a wealth of information that you can provide to us. I'm just curious if you can share, in those 40 years, if you have seen any patterns or changes in security cases being overridden and moved to lower security. Have you seen any patterns of that increasing recently? Do you have any thoughts on that?
12:45 p.m.
Commissioner, Correctional Service of Canada
No, actually.... Obviously, when I started, you had to write your reports. There were no computers. There was no social media. However, at the core, I was a parole officer—that's how I started. We did the same thing. We assessed areas. We transferred inmates to minimum.
Actually, I will say, though, early on in the 1980s, there were lots more escapes from minimum, for example. I think it's been mentioned that we don't have as many. The population has changed, though, a lot, since I first started with CSC. There are lots more complexities in the inmate population.